Diagnosed With AuDHD Late In Life: Trauma, Masking, & Finally Understanding Yourself

In this episode, I sit down with Ellie “AuDHD” Capstick for a conversation about autism, ADHD, childhood trauma, masking, identity, parenting, and what happens when someone finally receives answers after spending decades wondering why they feel different. Ms. Capstick was diagnosed with neurodivergence in her late 30s after recognizing similarities between herself and her neurodivergent children. The diagnosis brought both relief and grief as she began looking back at a lifetime of criticism, misunderstanding, and attempts to fit into environments that were never designed around the way her brain worked. 

We explore AuDHD—the combination of autism and ADHD—and Ms. Capstick describes the internal conflict between ADHD’s desire for novelty and impulsivity and autism’s need for predictability and routine. We also discuss masking, why some neurodivergent people become skilled at mirroring those around them, and how this can complicate diagnosis later in life. I raise concerns about the social-media trivialization of conditions such as ADHD, while Ms. Capstick explains why the reality can involve substantially more than being distracted, forgetful, or quirky. 

Ms. Capstick also opens up about experiencing childhood sexual abuse and the difficulty of separating symptoms associated with trauma from those associated with neurodivergence. We discuss vulnerability, self-worth, people-pleasing, unhealthy relationships, young motherhood, and how an undiagnosed condition can influence far more than education or employment. Looking back at raising her older children before understanding herself, Ms. Capstick shares what she wishes she had known and how that knowledge has changed the way she now approaches parenting. 

Most importantly, we focus on what comes after understanding yourself. Ms. Capstick explains how identifying a neurodivergent person’s strengths and hyperfocuses can help create a life that works with their brain instead of constantly forcing them into a conventional mold. Her own hyperfocus on neurodivergence eventually developed into a rapidly growing online community, coaching and mentorship work, and her podcast. Whether someone is professionally diagnosed, exploring the possibility of neurodivergence, parenting a neurodivergent child, or simply trying to better understand someone they love, this conversation is about replacing shame and confusion with education, appropriate tools, self-awareness, and purpose. 

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and today we are going to be getting into a couple of different topics. We're gonna get into what our childhood trauma and the things that happened can be used for, how they shape us, what happens when we're diagnosed late in life with a condition, whether that's ADHD, autism, a combination of both. And we're gonna talk about identity, purpose, and everything going into that. And then of course, most importantly, spreading awareness and having these conversations. It's so important to have these conversations, and I think there's a lot of fluff out there going around. There's a lot of overabundance of people claiming these words or that, and, you know, I think the reason I wanna have this conversation is the importance of getting the people who actually need the help the right information, getting the help. And I hope this reaches a lot of young adults who are maybe feeling out of place and have not been diagnosed yet. And hopefully we can share some of the things to help encourage you and to help you, uh, be able to navigate life a little more easily. And here to help me do that today, we have Ellie Capstick calling from across the world. I'm in Japan, you know, she's over there in, in the Europe area, so who knows what time it is there. It's nighttime here, you know. But I love that we're able to have these global conversations about matters that, as we're highlighting here, affect people in every country. You know, we're all human beings and we need to come together and talk about these kinds of conversations. So Ellie, so great to have you here. Thank you, Mr. Whiskey. I'm in the UK. I'm quite sad that you didn't know that. But thank you so, so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. I must say, I was a little nervous today, as I said to you when I come on, because the nuke spit threw me a little bit. Um, but, but I'm rest assured I- I'm good now. So thank you so much for having me. Of course, and yeah, we can hear the UK. We didn't need to, you know, state it. We can hear it loud and proudly. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Um, so I am 40 years old. I am a woman. I am... All my life I thought I was different, but I thought that that was down to childhood trauma. Um, I didn't fit in anywhere. At 10 years old, I was, like, having existential crisises. At 12 year old, I was looking for God. Like, I just didn't fit in anywhere. And I put all of that down to trauma that I had experienced as a child. Um, it's only, you know, I've got children now that are adults. They're in their 20s. Um, so it's only when I had my children that, um, people kept coming up to me and saying, "They're presenting with signs of autism or ADHD." And I was really offended. Like, I was like, "Whoa," like that, that's not the thing that you say to people. Um, but that's because I was... At, at the time I didn't know much about neurodivergence. Um, so they all got diagnosed with some kind of neurodivergence, and then I started looking into myself and I was like, "Actually, my kids are very similar to me." And I'm very similar to my dad, but I put my dad's traits down to childhood trauma too, 'cause he'd had a traumatic childhood. Um, so I couldn't tell what was from the childhood and what was from neurodivergence. But in my late 30s I also got diagnosed with neurodivergence, and it's, it's made sense of my whole life. I mean, it's come with a lot of relief. It's come with a lot of grief, 'cause I'm like, what if I would've known sooner I would've had the right tools to channel it? I wouldn't have beat myself up so bad. And, you know, and if I would've known when I had my children, I... When I used to see my children displaying autistic traits, I would try and stop them doing it because I didn't want them to be like me. I would be like, I didn't want them to get bullied. I want, didn't want them- Mm ... to be outcasts. So I'm so passionate about people learning about neurodiversity so that they don't beat themselves up their whole life so they know, actually, there's nothing wrong with neurodiversity. We can be very successful, but we need to use a different skillset. So, you know, if you're neurodivergent and you've grown up and you've gone to mainstream schools, which is absolutely fine, you spend your life being taught by a teacher that's a fish, right? And you're in a class with people that are fish, and they're like, "Ellie, do this, you know, swim." And, and Ellie can't swim, and Ellie feels like shit because Ellie can't do anything that the other kids are doing, you know? And that is- Neurodivergent children experience 20%, apparently, more criticism in their childhood than neurotypical children. So I've gone through my life hearing criticism, and I didn't actually understand it's actually just the way my brain works. And if I have the right tools, then I can, I can do life. But I couldn't do life the way they were doing it, so I would beat myself up, and I would feel bad, and everyone would criticize me. So I'm really, really passionate about people learning from early now that, yes, you're neurodivergent. No, there's nothing wrong with you. It is bloody difficult. You know, it is really difficult, but there is a toolset that can help you. And, and we need to explore it together because so many people have got to the age of 40, just realized, uh, that they're neurodivergent. But they've had so much trauma from just beating themself up and thinking, "Why aren't I normal? Like, why can't I do things like other people?" And they've had so much criticism their whole life. It's the ... You know, the sui- suicide rates is quite high. You know, the addiction rates is quite high. We have a predisposition to addiction anyway because the ADHD side. And, you know, and then once you've got trauma, that addiction cycle can, you know It's ... So it's hard. I'm just really keen on people learning, okay, you're neurodivergent. It doesn't actually mean you're broken. Yes, it's quite shitty at times. Um, I struggle a lot with a lot of things, but I'm gonna use a different toolset, and it's gonna work for me So that, that's it in a nutshell. Right, and we're at a turning point really because of just the change in mindset around this. For example, I've interviewed a lot of people who when they were growing up, uh, people a bit older than you, when they were growing up, they were told that they were just stupid. Or like you talked about that harsh criticism. It was- Yeah ... "Hey, you're really dumb," or, "You're struggling with this." And a lot of them were actually dyslexic. You know, I had a guy- Yeah ... on the show jokingly say, "I was dyslexic." Yes. Dyslexic, neurodivergent, yeah. Which, yeah, during my time period was, "You're stupid," you know? We had a gentleman who he couldn't read the board because he needed glasses, but his father said, "No, you're not getting glasses. You know, you have good eyesight, and if you get glasses, you're this kind of person." You know, so stuff like that has really held back an entire generation. And I think we're at a turning point now where we are becoming more aware, inclusive, and helping these students navigate where we have different class structures or different online systems. So I think we're at a turning point now where we still have, you know, some generations that were affected by it, but hopefully moving forward we're starting to build that system that will help people be in the right place to properly learn. Even just learning styles. You know, we've come a long way of knowing some people are more audible, some people are more visual, some people are kinesthetic, right? We've really begun to be more properly informed on how can we best teach and educate. You know, it used to just be, "I'm gonna yell at you, and I'm gonna do it once, and you should be able to do it." You know, we're shifting from that. Yeah. I, I grew up like that as well. And, you know, when I started having my children, I, I thought ashamedly that is how it works. And when they wasn't getting it, I would be like, "Okay, if I yell more they might get it." Um, so I understand that completely, but I'm s- we're so lucky that there has become this shift. But with this shift has become a lot of people saying, "Oh, you know, I, I have ADHD. I forget my keys. I have ADHD and I, oh- Mm-hmm ... I'm so cute and forgetful." And I think a lot of people that are really struggling, they're like- Oh my God, there must be something more serious with me because I don't just forget my keys, I forget to the, go to the bathroom and I piss myself. Like, ADHD is that serious, you know? ADHD is, has a lot more than, "Oh, I, you know, I just forgot what I walked into the room for." And I think a lot of people now think, "Oh, I must have something more serious than autism or ADHD because my symptoms are much worse." And I think sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes in the media or TikTok or anywhere like this, ADHD is becoming a little trivialized. Um, and it's- Mm-hmm ... becoming like it's just forgetfulness. Um, but it's not. It's something that I've struggled with my whole life, you know. I've, I've been to therapy. I've, I've been sectioned at times, you know. There's been a lot that's come from being au- I'm AuDHD, so that's a mix of autism and ADHD. So ADHD is where you're more impulsive, you have that need for novelty. Um, in my head, it presents like a drunk teenager, right? So, like, all excitable. You know, it's different for everyone, but in that, in my head, that's how it presents. And in the other half of my head, I've got a old man that wants to sit at home with his pipe, with his slippers, have everything routine, military, you know, like, "Tsh." Okay? So these two people in my head are fighting, and I feel like I'm never good enough because I can never be, make this one happy, and I can never make this one happy. Mm. Mm. So, you know, AuDHD is the two neurodivergencies together of autism and ADHD, but it presents as such a paradox and such a conflict. And it is what... It's really hard. Um, so I think that nobody really understands the gravity of that when people on the internet go, you know, "I'm a little bit ADHD, I forget my keys," because I think that's what people think ADHD is. And when people are saying- Mm-hmm ... "I can't go to work and work like a normal person 'cause I'm ADHD," people are like, "Come on, you know, you can work, you know. You're just ADHD." But I don't think a lot of people realize how serious ADHD and autism can be. Right. We see that happening a lot with a lot of different conditions. I've seen- Yeah ... the worst part is there are some women out there faking, uh, Tourette's or Down syndrome or using other filters or voice things to, uh, support their, their pornographic career or to get more attention. Like you said, it's cute. And I think the sad part, like you said, is now it takes away the attention from the people who actually need it, and it really highlights one symptom of many. And dyslexia is a great example. I've interviewed a couple experts on dyslexia on this podcast. Because of media, I grew up thinking dyslexia was just the rearrangement of letters in your brain when you read. That's a single symptom, and it's the most cinematic symptom that people show in movies and TVs, but there's a whole bunch of other stuff going on. And sometimes we get so focused on a symptom that we forget that there's so much more, like you said. Yeah. And I think it's hard because there is a spectrum. And so some people are really severe and some people are not as much. And, you know, some people claim it just to claim it, as you mentioned. And I, I hate that some people are using it as an excuse to be lazier, to be forgetful, or to justify something. And then there's people who are actually struggling. Um, you know, that's just terrible. And so I'm glad we're having this conversation and the work that you do. And thank you for clarifying the difference between, you know, autism and ADHD. And like you said, it's very different for everyone. So I encourage you- Yeah ... if you think you have it, you know, get help. And don't just see one doctor. In my personal opinion, see multiple people. I, I- Yeah ... I really believe in more opinions and just to kind of verify that. But I wanna go- Especially... Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Especially with neurodivergence because, so when we grow up being neurodivergent, not all, I, I say everything, but it's always a not all. Once you meet one neurodivergent person- Right ... you've met one. I'm, I'm not saying for everyone. But a lot of neurodivergent people, when we grow up, we mask, which means we try to assimilate to be like everyone else around us. So if I was around, I don't know, cowboys, I would, you know, I would... It just came to my head. Yeah. I would, like, assimilate the cowboy culture, and I would become that to be what one of... I'm a social chameleon. So I think when a lot of women and men go to the doctors and, you know, non-binary and they say, "You know, I think I'm non d- neurodivergent," they're so used to fitting in with the people that nobody sees. You know, I look, to a certain extent, normal, you know- Mm-hmm ... whatever normal is. And people are like, "No, you've not got something wrong with you. You present as normal. You talk normal. You know, you're able to go on a podcast and have a conversation, therefore you must be okay." But it, that's not always the case. So I think for, for neurodivergent people, because they seem normal, um, people think, "Oh, no, you know, they must be making it up," but nobody actually sees the struggle behind it. Mm. I think that's an excellent point, especially with the masking. Because when you feel different, you usually don't wanna be different, especially when, I, I know looking back at places in, in my childhood especially, where I was different and I did not mind being different and I chose to be who I was, and I was punished for it. Or seemingly- Yeah ... punished for it. And so there is- Yeah, which is what we ex- I experienced my whole life, so I just got really good at being like you. Like, just if, if you're some way, I'm gonna be the same way. I'm gonna copy you and I'm gonna copy every symptom. So every time a lot of neurodivergent people go to the doctors or something to get diagnosed, they copy the doctor and mirror the doctor. Mm. So the doctor's, the doctor's not even hip to it yet. You know, they're not even clocking on, "Actually, the person is just copying me." Right. Well, and that's one of the issues with mental health examinations. I'll give you, uh, at least I've seen this military side, and I'm sure civilian side they do as well, is you go to the doctor and, and the nurse sees you first, and she gives you a paper, you know, a paper sheet that has, "On a scale of one to 10, how do you feel about this? How do you feel about that?" And you're thinking, "Okay, based on what number, what, what are they gonna respond with?" Yeah. And of course, I, I wanna get help, but I don't wanna be, quote, "locked up." Yeah. So how do I answer this and fill it out accordingly? You know- And- ... a lot of us are, like you said, w- trying to predict how the doctor will respond or feel. Yes. But sometimes we need a response that is different from what we want. What we want and need are different, and sometimes we block our own help, and it's, it's really unfortunate. I wanna backtrack and take a look at your childhood. Uh- Yeah ... you mentioned some trauma going on. Mm-hmm. And I'd love to just discuss that in general, um, at just standalone, and then in compound with the AuDHD, you know, how those two affected each other looking back. Yeah. Because as you mentioned, you didn't know at the time. No. So I'd like to unpack some of that trauma. Um, so I experienced childhood sexual abuse, not from either of my parents. I never say who the person was because it's not just my story to tell. It's affected a lot of people- Mm, mm ... in my life. But I must say it wasn't my brother, my sister, or my parents. Um, so I experienced that as a child, um, from... I can't actually say how old I was because I was so young that you don't know at that age how old you were. Um, but I was- Mm ... somewhere between two, and it carried on till I was about five. Um, obviously I didn't know it was a bad thing because when you're two you don't know what that is. Um- So when I was growing up, you know, I would think about it a lot. I only disclosed it to my mother when I was 12, and she's done absolutely everything that she could to help me. She was, she was great. Um, but from then, people were like, "Oh, that explains why Ellie's a little bit, you know- Mm ... 'cause she's gone through all of this trauma." So I was like, "Yeah, that, that makes sense," you know? That's why I'm the way I am. That's why I'm, you know, I'm a 12-year-old looking for God, and that's why I'm a 12-year-old with these OCD traits and, you know, it started to explain a lot to me. Um, so I just put everything down to the trauma that I'd gone through. But actually, a lot of the symptoms of trauma and neurodivergence are the same. Because if you've had, um, trauma, you are sometimes prone to masking, and neurodivergence you mask. Um, you're also, if you've gone through trauma, you can be prone to, like, OCD-like symptoms, and neurodivergence you can... So there is so many crossovers. So now when I do something, I don't know if it's something that came from my trauma or if it's something that came from my neurodivergence. But of, of course, neurodivergence can sometimes make you more susceptible to trauma because you are- Mm ... more vulnerable. You know, I hate saying this because I'm not a vulnerable person, I don't think, right? I look like I can stand up for myself and, you know, I won't take any shit. But I am a vulnerable person at the end of the day. I've had people who have told me, you know, when you're neurodivergent and you've experienced 20%, 20% more criticism in your life, your self-esteem is bullshit, right? Mm. So basically, if somebody tells you, "Oh, you're amazing. You're beautiful," you know, "I'm gonna do this for you. Don't tell your mommy or don't tell your..." You're very susceptible to abuse because you will have a very low self-esteem. Sometimes you take things at face value. Sometimes you don't understand little, um, caveats and things like that. So it does- Right make you more susceptible to sexual abuse as a child or adult, uh, narcissistic abuse as an adult because you cling onto something because you feel like low self-worth 'cause you've experienced so much criticism your whole life. So not only is neurodivergence traumatic in itself, it can, and not, and not always of course with everything I say, but it can make our children and ourselves more susceptible to- Mm any kind of abuse growing up because we are more vulnerable. Right. And so like you said, a lot of the, uh, trauma and then the neurodivergence overlaps. So how do we go about the filtration, the determination of what is what? Is there like a firm test that we can just say, "Hey, it's this or it's that"? What, what is kind of the process? Do you know what? I, I don't, I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer. Um, I think for me, for a long time I thought it was, it thought it was trauma. I thought my dad was the way he was because he'd had trauma, and that was why we're both similar. Even when I first went for my, um, ADHD autism tests, which are two separate tests, um, they told me... Because my dad, now I know he's autistic, right? But he br- brought us up, like, under a regime. It, it's, it's not his fault. Mm. He's just, that's how his brain worked. We wasn't allowed to wear red. We wasn't allowed to walk onto ladders. You know, there was so many quirky things, and he brought us up very like that. And I thought my dad was very normal. Must copy your parents, because this is the autistic side of me. Mm. Right, right. I, I, I try and emulate what my parents are, 'cause they are the, my role models. Um, so when I went for my neurodivergence, um, test, they said that, "We can't tell whether this is your trauma. We can't tell whether this is learnt behavior. We can't tell whether this is nature, and we can't tell whether this is nurture. So you need to go-" Mm. "... for some therapy, and then you need to return to us and see what happens." I went for a lot of different opinions and a lot of different things to get my diagnosis in the end, and my diagnosis now I feel like fits for me. I don't know. Maybe I'm not neurodivergent and, you know, I've been diagnosed. Maybe it is just trauma. We never fully know, you know. It's not God telling me. Mm. It's a doctor, you know? And I'll never know, but I feel validated and I feel like, yes, that profile does fit with me. And I think, you know, neurodivergent, um, exam or test is very expensive, so we have a lot of people now self- Mm diagnosing themself as neurodivergent. And I do think sometimes ... I used to think, you know, "Oh, I'm not sure I like that. You know, mm, not sure." But actually I think it's valid now. Sometimes if you know, you know. Them a co- them tests are very expensive. Here in the UK, to get tested for both ADHD and autism together, the two separate tests but putting the price together, it's about 3,000 pounds. Not everyone has that money. Um, not everyone has the ability, especially if you've got neurodivergence, to keep filling out the forms, keep going back to the doctors. And, you know, it's a long process. Right. So I do feel like we have to make room for self-diagnosis- Mm ... as well. Um, I do think that's an important thing. So when people come to my group, 'cause I've got a community of 48,000 or something, um, of neurodivergent people in my group, and a lot of them are self-diagnosed. And, you know, in the beginning the people I was working with said, "Oh, you know, should we take self-diagnosed people?" And we think, now we think it's completely valid because not everyone can go through that process. And, you know, that's it. Right. And the hope is in the future it'll become more accessible for people to do this as it becomes more important and more even really necessary to have this filtration system to prepare people for education better- Yeah ... and to prevent people from just self-diagnosing. You know, I think it's important. And, you know, that's a whole conversation on its own, whether the government should provide for that or not, which I mean, it's for public health and it is for the improvement of our society, but, you know, that's- Yeah ... they like to spend money on other stuff so. I, but I think it's important, and I hope that conversations like this continue to spread the idea- Yeah of making testing more accessible and easy to navigate, especially for the people who, like you said, it can be very difficult process for them. And they, they wanna get the help. And like you said, I think it's really not about the diagnosis. Like you said, you could go and they could say it's, it's trauma or it's neurodivergence or it's something else. Yeah, they're not always right. You know, they're, they're not God. Right. They didn't all ... or whatever belief you believe in, you know. Right. They didn't make you. It m- m- so neurodivergence is probably the, the term is a social construct. You know, who's to say I'm, I'm not normal and that other people aren't divergent? You know what I mean? Right. So, but it ... But yeah, completely agree. It needs to be a conversation that's had. Right. And, and my point with that especially is whether it was trauma, whether it was neurodivergence, or whether it was something else, I think the really important focal point is, well, what do we do from there? You know, it's not about does... am I gonna use this as an excuse to ex- you know, blame everything on this or blame that person. I think the real focal point is now that I have this knowledge, how can I best move forward? Well, and my thing- Yeah ... and that's what I'm so passionate about. So I have three adult children, and, um, that are between the ages of 18 and 22. Um, I didn't know they was neurodivergent at first because, you know, I was young when I had them, and I didn't know much about neurodivergence myself. Even though I was neurodivergent, I didn't even know myself. Um, they were very, very smart. I didn't homeschool them. They went to a mainstream school. It would've been great if I could homeschool them. I homeschool my youngest child, but I, I couldn't. They had surpassed me by the time that they were, like, five. Um, but what is, I don't think that... One of them I'm speaking about specifically, and, and they know this, I can't see them getting on in a real world where they're working for the system, working for the man. You know, I don't see that being a thing for them. So their g- uh, their obsession or their hyperfocus is guitars. Mm. They are so intelligent. They know everything about guitars. They, you know, know how to fix guitars, know how to play guitars. So I've made it my passion from when they were little, "You will learn every single thing about guitar 'cause that is your strong point, and you can be a luthier. You can be a guitar teacher." I need to give this child who, who is now an adult a different toolkit and a different strategy. Right. I just can't send this child to school, say learn maths, English, blah, blah, blah, and then go and work, you know, for the system. It can't... It won't always work like that. Mm. You need to take your gifts and your hyperfocuses, and you need to learn to channel them. And as parents of neurodivergent children, this is what I'm really passionate about, 'cause it's only something I've r- learnt recently, and I wish that I would've always known it so I could give all of my kids that, that boost and, you know, make their hyperfocus their career field. Now you can make anything your career field, and I'm not saying it's easy. And we're all at different points, you know? Some neurodivergent people, they can't do them things, and that's okay. But my n- my hyperfocus is neurodivergence, funnily enough, um, and it's what I like to talk about. And I never start... I just... So my Facebook got shut down in February Um, for talking about, I don't know, probably political stuff or something like this, right? So my Facebook got shut down in February, and I started a new Facebook, um, which was Ellie. And I didn't want to use my surname because I- I'm not a very sociable person, so I didn't want people from school to find me, but I still wanted to use Facebook. And so I thought, "What can I call myself?" And then I was like, "Do you know what? All my life I'm either lazy Ellie, weird Ellie, chatty Ellie, Ellie that can't make eye contact." And I thought, as a joke, I'm gonna call myself Ellie AuDHD, because that label I'm okay with now, you know? It's better than all of them shit labels that I've always had. Mm. Um, so I called myself Ellie AuDHD, and I kept getting people with AuDHD following me. At this time I didn't have my profile picture and stuff like that. I was never comfortable with social media. I still use a filter. Like, I'm not comfortable being on s- on a screen presence. That's just not me. Um, but I kept getting these neurodivergent people following me, and they kept reaching out and asking me questions. And then I started making videos and stuff, and for some reason I just slipped into this, um, neurodivergence thing where- Right ... now I've become some kind of public speaker for... Which is never what I intended, because I couldn't think of anything worse. But since it's my hyperfocus, it's kinda worked for me. I do coaching and I do mentorship as well, and you know, and a podcast. And this... And I've been able now to kind of base that around my hyperfocus, which is neurodivergence. So you know, hyperfocus is really a gift, and this day and age you can make a job out of anything. Um, you know, the internet has a lot of crazy, bad things about it, but you know, it also comes with a lot of good things if you've got a hyperfocus. So now we, we can gear our kids up with that toolkit and that strategy to, to do something that they're good at. And they don't have to feel like, "Oh, I'm shit because I can't do maths, I can't do English like everyone else. I can't concentrate." No, we're gonna find your gift, and we're gonna channel that. For sure. I've always been a huge fan, and I butted heads with my parents a lot over this, of the non-traditional path. If someone said- Yeah ... you know, "I want to be a magician or a comedian or a pianist," or whatever it was, I was always in support of the creative careers. Especially nowadays, you know, with English, math, and everything else being so, you know, digitalized and, and AI'd and everything. I'm not saying those things aren't important, but I, I agree- Yeah ... with the hyperfocus. In fact, when I interviewed the dyslexia professors and experts, that was how they could get someone who struggled with reading, hated reading, but if you gave them a book that was in their hyperfocus, as you mentioned, they would, they would read it. They, because... And that's for teaching in general. When it's something you're passionate about, you know, it, it gets done so much better. And that's one of my issues with college and school, is there's a lot of mandatory classes that aren't relevant to your life, to what you're passionate about, or what you even wanna pursue, especially in college, but they're just mandatory. You have to take these classes, usually 'cause it, you know, it makes the college more money, and then they have the stuff. And I think it's just a waste of time. It's a waste of the professor's time- I agree ... to teach people who don't care about the subject. It's a waste of time for the people who have to spend time and money, you know, studying and researching, filling their brain with knowledge that they're gonna dump out. And that, they could- Yeah ... be learning other stuff I never used any of my cookery or any of my, you know, there was a lot of lessons that I'd done a lot of time on and, and I'm never gonna use them. And, you know, I homeschool my daughter that's nine. Luckily, I work from home and I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna try this homeschooling thing." So I homeschool her, and we do English, we do maths, we touch upon science. You know, she'll still be able to sit her exams and stuff like that. But I also teach her a lot of life skills. Her hyper-focus, I don't know if she's neurodivergent at all. It could be learned. It could be in her. Who knows? Um, but it doesn't matter because she's not going to school. She doesn't need to feel that validation. Everyone she's surrounded with is a bit of everything. But her hyper-focus is horses and cowboys. Like, she is so hyper-focused on horses, right? It is her thing. It's ... She lives and breathes horses. And I just feel like if I'd sent her to school and they were just, like, sitting her down doing maths, history, science, blah, blah, blah, she wouldn't have got anything out of it. I can sit her down at home and I can, I can make everything related to horses somehow, even maths and English. You know, we just need... But not everyone's got time for that. You know, parents work and- Yeah ... but I just feel like the school system is teaching a group of fish, and if you're not a fish, you're gonna feel like shit. You're gonna feel like, "Why can't I be like everyone else?" And I don't want everyone to grow up with that trauma. Life is hard enough. Mm-hmm. Everyone's gonna have trauma, you know? Mm-hmm. All our fa- you know, no one's gonna get through li- they are, but some people are, but not everyone's gonna get through life without facing sexual abuse or parents problems or parents divorcing. We're all gonna have this bit. Right. And I just don't want everyone to have this added trauma. Um, so let's try and minimize it as much as, as we can. 100%. And I'm very curious, so you had your first child around 18, 19, you know, uh, with a traumatic childhood, with undiagnosed neurodivergence. I mean, was that a very intimidating time, or was that what you were really passionate about, or was that from sexual abuse, or what was the story with that? Um, no, my sexual abuse was long, long gone by then. That was only something that happened till when I was about six years old probably. Mm. Um, I then become quite a vulnerable teenager. I was looking for love. I was looking for acceptance. Right. I was looking for answers. Um, I met, um, my partner. He wasn't that much older than me, and, you know, he wasn't the greatest guy in the earth. He's probably slightly narcissistic, but, you know, there wasn't any major, major problems. You know, it's not like he trafficked me or there's nothing crazy like that. I f- I fell pregnant with my child and, you know, and I had my child, and my child is now 22, and I've always had custody of my child, you know? It's always been me and, and my child. I love my child to death, but I probably should have had my child now. Now I know myself, you know? I've got children in their 20s, and I've got children of nine, and I can-- and a child of nine, and I can see the difference in mothering. I was- Right ... I had a, I had a lot of trauma. I was neurodivergent. I was a single parent. I was young. I tried my best, but I didn't know what was wrong with me. All the time, you know, the baby would cry, and I'd be like, "Oh my God, why, why is this, you know, sensory driving me crazy?" Like- Mm ... and, you know, and I've always done the best for my chi- I l- I, I can't, I don't think any other parent loves their chil- my children are a bit like my obsession. It's a little bit weird. And so I love my children so much, but for them, I should have definitely had them older when I knew myself, and I was able to help them the best they can. Because I feel like if I'd had them older, I would've been able to invest more authentic me into them, and they would've had such a better quality of life. But as it is, they, they are amazing people, you know? They are the kindest people I know. Sometimes a little bit too kind. So I'm a people pleaser, and I've always been a people pleaser 'cause my self-worth is low. Um, so my children have seen me people please over the years, and they have become, you know, quite low in confidence, and they try and people please to make people happy. So there are quirks from me that they've picked up which- If they were born now, they wouldn't have seen them quirks 'cause I'm not like that anymore. But they've- Hmm ... still grown up to be confident and s- super intelligent, um, people. And, you know, I'm, I'm so glad I had them. I wouldn't change having them at that age I was because they wouldn't be the kids they are now or the adults they are now. But I wish I knew myself better before I had them because they deserve the best possible chance, and that would've give them the best possible chance. But, you know, l- life doesn't come with a rule book and, you know, we're just making the best out of what we've got. So now I'm doing my best to prove myself to them. I'm trying. You know, don't get me wrong, I was a young mom, but I never left them with anyone. You know, they, they were never them kids that, you know, go to their nan's all the time or their grandma's because their mom's partying. I was with them all the time. Like, I give them everything. But they did see meltdowns and sensory overloads and things that they shouldn't have seen. Because if I would've known- Hmm ... I was neurodivergent, I would've been like, "Okay, this is neurodivergence, and this is why I'm doing it." But at the time, I didn't know why I was crazy. I was like, "What, what's wrong with me," you know? And I was still going for narcissistic people because I was vulnerable. Um, so yeah, that is the only thing that was really affected. But, so now I'm just doing my best so nobody else has to go through this. And I think that- Right ... they appreciate that as well because I, you know, I say to them, "I'm s- I'm so sorry I wasn't diagnosed, you know. I didn't know what was wrong with me. You saw a lot of meltdowns in your childhoods, and you went through things that you shouldn't have gone," because I was kinda mentally unstable. Um, but don't get me wrong, they, they had a good childhood, you know. We went to a lot of places. We done a lot of things. I'm sure they knew I loved them. But it wasn't ideal because I was undiagnosed neurodivergent. And all the time I was wondering, "What the fuck's wrong with me?" And were you a single mother for all three of your children? Um, so I've got four children. Okay. And yes, um, so basically, um, I was really, um, because unfortunately... So my self-worth was always very, very low. So I would pick a partner, um, I've only ever in my life had three boyfriends. I'm a very loyal, very, like, traditional, and all of them partners have been for, like, a decade or so. So they've all been long-term relationships. You know, I had one of six years, one of nine years, and one of, like s- I've always had really long-term relationships 'cause I'm very loyal, and even if the person is very bad to me, I will stay with them and keep trying. Um, that's, I'm like a bit of a traditionalist. It, it's caused me a lot of problems, but that's what happens. So, um- Mm ... but the thing is, I didn't think I was worth somebody, um, that was great, or somebody that had a good job, or someone that treated me so well and took me out. So what I would do is I would go for somebody that was very broken and gave me a shit time, and I would think, "It's okay, Ellie. You don't deserve someone amazing, but you can fix them to be amazing." And so I would go for someone really, really bad, someone really, really traumatized, and then I would do my best to try and fix them, which obviously if that person doesn't wanna be fixed, it, it doesn't work. Right. Um, so unfortunately, I went through life attracting people that were quite broken because, you know, I felt sorry for them. I didn't have self-worth, you know. I'm a fixer. And so that has been another issue, and I think if I wasn't neurodivergent, or if I'd known I was neurodivergent growing up, my confidence would've been... What I do with my daughter specifically is I fill her with so much confidence that she doesn't feel like she has to settle. So I'm sure when she, I hope to God, when she's older and she meets a man, if they give her some bullshit level, she'd be like, "I'm better than that." But when someone gave me bullshit level when I was, when I was growing up, I'd be like, "Thank you," you know? "I, thank you so much," you know? "I, I will accept that- Right because I'm lucky I'm getting anything." Um, so I think that's why it's important with neurodivergence because it doesn't just, uh, it doesn't just affect you in one way. It can affect your future relationships, your children's health, everything. Um, so yes, I was a single mom because I was a bad picker. Okay. And I, I just ask because we saw kind of your childhood trauma, and we see where you're at now. Mm-hmm. And I was just curious about all that time between the trauma and the diagnosis, kind of how your life was. And it sounded like you obviously had a lot of hardships, but you managed everything, uh, seemingly well. Yes. And it seems like you were successful in most of what you did. And now you actually have this huge community and the podcast, as you mentioned. I'd love to just get a little bit into that conversation about what the podcast is for and who it serves. Um, so as I said earlier, like, it didn't start off, like, it just started off with a Facebook. And then I always wanted to write a book, um, for years because I've had, you know, even some of the experiences we've touched on, that is, that's nothing, you know? I've had some crazy- Right ... ass experiences over the years. And I wanted to write a book, um, for my children so that if something ever happens to me, they I explained to them enough about things, but I wanted them to have something that they could have a real explanation of why I did the things I did and why I think the way I think. Um, but unfortunately, a book is not something that I can write. I don't think in a linear fashion. Um, it's just not my thing. And I was thinking, "What, what can I do?" And then someone suggested to me a couple of months ago, it was only about April time, "Ellie, you're really good at talking." You know, I'm not good at talking. I don't talk in a linear fashion. I'm all over the place. But I'm down to earth, and I will talk with everyone, and I can get on with everyone. They said, "But why don't you make a podcast?" And I thought, "No." But then I remembered- ... that if you make a podcast, you don't have to be on camera, you know? Mm-hmm. I can just talk and no one has to see me. I can even- Right. Right ... be anonymous. So that's why I started off as Ellie AuDHD, because my name is actually Shelly. I just shorten it to Ellie. So I thought, you know, no one would be able to find me. You know, I can do this all anonymous, and my kids can always be left with all these podcasts, so if something happens to me, you know, they can, they can know why I am the way I am. And so that's how it started off. So in April, I started off just, like, speaking into my phone and uploading it to Spotify. But quite quickly, I got, um, subscribers. So I got put up onto, like, a ... I had so many views that they offered me subscriptions and stuff like that, Spotify. And you know, I've only had my Facebook since April, but I've already got a community of quite a few thousand. You know, it, it's gone better than I thought. I never thought that I could make use of the things that I had and that I could talk about. Um, but unfort- but fortunately, my neurodivergent quirks and my trauma has made this happen, and that's why I think, you know, thank God- I don't even know if I would change my neurodivergence or my childhood trauma because, you know what, it's got me where I am today. I'm very happy. I feel like I'm helping people. I get messages every day from ... And I'm a people pleaser, so I find it really hard not to message back everyone. A lot of people message me. I get hundreds of messages every day of people that want me to help them and, you know, they can't afford help. And, and I feel like so like I've gotta help everyone, but I can't do it anymore. It's, it's been something I've had to accept. I cannot message everyone back. Um, but I feel like if I didn't go through all of this stuff, I wouldn't be where I am now, and I feel like I've finally found the authentic me. I'm finally happy. You know, I've been single for about a decade now. It, it works for me. I don't think relationships work for me. I've been single for a decade. I've found work is my hyper-focus, but I found a work that I can, that I can do that is a hyper-focus that's helping people, and I love fixing people and helping people. So that, you know, it all ties in together. I found, I feel like I've finally found myself. And the podcast is definitely, you know, I do coaching and I do mentorship and I do, you know, there's Facebook-y things. But the podcast is, is definitely my happy place. Mm. It's, it's definitely what, what I like to do. But I'm lucky that, you know, I work for a company. I freelance and I do mentoring and stuff like that. So luckily, you know, I'm okay for the financial side. But I would just love to do podcasts forever. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I totally get that. But I'm, I'm so passionate about I want people to know ... You know when people listen to me and they're like, "Oh my God, maybe I was neurodivergent all along." Because I feel like a lot of neurodivergent people are presenting like, "Oh, I just forgot my keys. That's so cute." Or there's a real clinical aspect where people are talking about neuro diver- divergence in a way that people don't understand. Mm. I don't think there's very often that middle ground where- Right ... people come up to me and say, "Hey, Ellie, I pee myself. Is that normal? I can't say that to anyone else. Like, but I feel like with you I can say that." And I like the fact that people can be real and people can be honest with me. I think that's what's so important. I'm not clinical. I'm not claiming to be a doctor. You know, I've got, uh, qualifications in therapy and stuff like that, but I'm not using them. I, I don't want to use them. I just wanna be me and I wanna be approachable, and that's the platform that I'm trying to build for people. I love that, and we're gonna have the links in the description below for people to check out and find your content and hopefully- Yeah, you don't have to be neurodivergent. Even if you've got a family member that's neurodivergent or you wanna know about neurodivergents, I don't wanna see your, your statement saying you're neurodivergent. You- if you're a nice person, and you know you're not bigoted, you come in our community and you make yourself at home. It is a place for everyone, you know? I- there's 48 people, or 48,000 people in my group right now, and I take it as my own personal thing to moderate the shit out of that group, you know? If there's any bullying, I will chuck someone out. There's a lot of scammers. You know, neurodivergent groups, we attract a lot of scammers 'cause people think they can scam us. You know, I take it upon my personal self to make sure that community is very safe, and I have some amazing moderators that do that with me that I know personally, because I won't let anyone else, because I'm scared- Right of people getting scammed and et cetera. But you know, everyone, as long as you are not, you know, in any way a nasty person, you know, you can have flaws, but if you are gonna be kind to the people in our community, come on in. You know, everyone is welcome, diagnosed or not. And I always put forward, get educated in all these matters, whether they affect you personally or not, 'cause you never know when they will. Uh, you know- Yeah ... whether that's, uh, you know, a relationship, or having children- That's right ... or a new friend that is, is different. And I thi- say always ask the question if you have friends who are neurodivergent, you know, always ask what you can do differently to best serve them or to best, uh, understand their needs if they are different. And so I think it's really important that we're always getting educated and being there for one another. So Ellie, thank you so much for guesting on the show today and sharing- Oh, thank you so much ... about your life. You wasn't scary at all. Thank you. Thank you. You was quite endearing in a mummy way. Like, aw, you're very lovely. Thank you. So honestly, thank you so much. I think shows like this matter because you're, you're spreading awareness yourself. So honestly, thank you so much for having me. I hope I didn't talk too much. I talk a lot, but that's ADHD. So thank you. No, that's what podcasts were made for. You know, this isn't YouTube Shorts or Instagram. You know, this is the long form, and it is the necessity of long form in making the changes that we wanna see. So I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Mr. Whiskey.