Jason Cavness: From Army Officer To Tech Connector & Long-Form Podcaster

Today, I sit down with Jason Cavness, a retired U.S. Army officer, entrepreneur, speaker, and host of The Jason Cavness Experience. Mr. Cavness shares his journey from enlisting in the Army to becoming an officer, building a long military career, and eventually moving into entrepreneurship, podcasting, tech startups, deep tech, AI, robotics, and international business connections.

In this episode, Mr. Cavness and I discuss military leadership, command climate, retention, toxic leadership, family sacrifice, and the reality of maintaining identity while serving for decades. Mr. Cavness shares stories from his time stationed around the world, including Germany, Italy, Korea, and Vietnam, while also explaining what good leadership looks like when leaders truly care about their people.

We also dive into podcasting, long-form conversations, creator growth, social media, monetization, and why deeper interviews can reveal more humanity than short-form content alone. Mr. Cavness explains how his podcast evolved over time, what he has learned from interviewing people across industries, and why in-person podcasting has become a major part of his brand.

This conversation also explores the changing future of technology, including AI, robotics, software development, Vietnam’s growing tech scene, and the importance of adapting instead of fearing innovation.

Mr. Cavness closes with a powerful reminder about self-limiting beliefs, starting before you feel ready, meeting new people, traveling, trying new things, and choosing to believe in yourself even when doubt tries to take over. 

Along the way, we also get into some K-Pop, bourbon, wine, and whiskey!

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncavness/

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Nulu Knives: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nucs. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I am in the midst of moving. I am moving states, and so I'm not in my normal studio setup, but we got, we got the lighting and microphone down good enough. So I apologize in advance if it's not as high quality. But I'm super excited for tonight. I am here reuniting with a man I just met recently at Military Creator Con. We actually met digitally through social media means of following each other through Military Creator Con leading up to the event, and then I had the great honor and pleasure of meeting him in person, getting to have some conversations. I got to catch the back end of his talk at Military Creator Con, so it was a great time connecting, and of course, we had a podcast. It's been, I guess, two, three weeks now since the event, and during that time I've met up and interviewed with a couple different people in person and digitally. So it's great to see that follow through. I've definitely been to some events where there was no follow through, and it was like, "Why did I even go?" So great to see the follow through here and actually have someone follow up. So Jason Cavness, so great to have you here. We're gonna get into a whole bunch. You served for quite a long time in the military, so that alone is a lot of stories there. Good, bad, in between, and then of course, you're going around speaking at conferences. You're running your own company, podcast as well. So a lot of different things to do, and I, I wanna dive into all of that and see what you got going on. So Mr. Cavness, could you please introduce yourself a little bit for us? Give us a little 30,000-foot overview of who you are. Yeah. First, Mr. Whiskey, thanks for having me on here. It's, it's a pleasure. So I, I, I have to say, like, I'm an INFJ. I'm a retired US Army officer, INFJ with a lot of tattoos, right? For people who don't know Myer-Briggs, INFJ, there's, like, 1% of us in the world supposedly, right? Right. 'Cause we do do things differently. We think differently. Like, for example, I'm introverted, but, like, I still love to talk in front of people, right? Which is kind of crazy, you know. Right now I'm work- I have a company called Cavness for, So I'm, I'm doing several things. I'm doing the podcast, The Jason Cavness Cavness Experience. I'm the US market director for a company called TechBank out of Ho Chi Minh C- Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, where we where we find we do software development for enterprise-level companies like Caltech, Fintech, AI. And also I do stuff with a, a venture firm called Earth VC out of Vietnam also. For Earth VC, we invest in, like, deep tech startups, like stuff like robotics, AI. Mm. Right now we're focused on AI infrastructure, data centers, and, like, small nuclear reactors. And of course we do a lot of stuff in the veteran community too. Yeah, and you know, I, I get that, talking about being that, that 1% of the population. You know, they say less than 1% make it into the naval nuclear program, and we are some strange people. I have found that, you know, intelligence and strangeness are directly proportional, and you look at some of the smartest people in the world, they're kind of weird. I won't name drop any politicians or figures right now, but you think of a couple people who are smart, and they're a little strange. And historically too, you look at some of the mad scientists in the past, and they were, they were interesting, you know? And I, and, and- Definitely ... strange and interesting can be interchangeable. Depends how you're saying it. But, you know, I wanna get into, just starting right away with that, first of all, you mentioned being an officer. Now, are you one of the cool officers, i.e. you were enlisted and then became an officer, or are you just an officer? No, I, I did, I, I was enlisted for eight years, then went to Army OCS, so yeah. And, and so one thing I'm proud of, like from my Army career, 80% of the people who worked for me are still connected with me on Facebook or other social media, right? So that's something I'm very proud of. Yeah, that's, that's very beautiful. I know one of the things that disheartens me is that a lot of the people that I was connected with, we just lost touch, you know? It wasn't like a disinterest in one another, but people went to different countries, different time zones, you know? They're doing, some people stayed in, some people switched, you know, whatever they were doing. In, in the Navy it's especially difficult when you've got people on aircraft carriers or submarines or ships, sometimes without Wi-Fi for periods of time, sometimes without their phone, especially in the nuclear community. So I lost contact with a lot of people, and some of them who got deployed to the Middle East, I never heard from them again, and I'm left kind of wondering like, "Hey, did something happen happen, or they just got busy?" You know, so it, it's a shame, you know. But then I've been able to meet up with some of them years in between, and it's like no time has passed at all, you know? And so- I know, right? ... have you been able to meet up in person with some of those contacts as well? Yeah, I, I do. I do once in a while. There's a lot of people up in the Fort Lewis area. Well, it's called Joint Base Lewis-McChord now, but yeah, I, I, I, I able to keep in touch with them. But let's go back to the weird thing real fast, right? That's one thing I wish I'd have learned later on in life, like, is that it's okay to be weird, right? 'Cause, you know, the public says, "Don't be weird. Be, basically be average. Don't be anything extraordinary." And it's the weird people that changes everything, right? So I think, you know, if you're weird, that's okay. Yeah, I agree 100%. I know that, you know, those are the people, like you said, who have changed history, who have changed mankind, and it's just being able to think differently. And, you know, that's the problem with so many people who get stuck in life, is they just think in the same patterns, or they don't think outside the box, or they get formed into mass formation. They get so group-minded, and they lose that individualistic characteristics. And, you know, I mean, why don't you talk a little bit about that, you know? In fact, being in the military and not losing your personal identity, did, is that something you struggled with at all, you know, being an individual, still being yourself? Or did you fall into place as just, quote, "another soldier"? Like, how was your identity journey through the military? 'Cause a lot of people struggle with that, especially being in as long as you were in. Yeah, it's always been that kind of different, right? I always try to do, do more things. Like, like when I was in college, I was president of my, my student body president at my university, and like I would do things like in, in the Army, I, I was commander of Vicenza, Italy, right? I would do stuff like do conferences. I would do all this extra stuff, right? Like, I was always goal-driven, right? And I was kind of known for that. Like when I was a lieutenant, I had the best platoon, best post office, best whatever, right? When I deployed a second time in Afghanistan, I was in charge of HR for the unit. Also the Red Cross, the training aides. I would always do the extra stuff, right? And people would tell me, "Jason, you're doing too much." But then they, they would get credit for it. I'd say, "Well, am I doing too much now that you ranked, got ranked as the best of this, the best of that?" You know? So you have to do extra stuff that, you know. But it, it was a challenge sometimes too, like keeping your identity, right? 'Cause, you know, Army is that group think, you know. But one thing I was luckily enough, I always had great people work for me, 'cause I had great people working for me. I was always, always ranked, ranked like top, the top of the heap, so to speak, right? In Army, whether it's fair or not, if you perform well, you can pretty much do what you want to sometimes, you know, versus if you're an average performer, you kind of let, you know, don't let things slide so much. If that makes any sense. It does, for sure. And you know, I think one of the things you said, like I, I hear that a lot all the time from me. Like, people tell me, "You're doing too much. You're doing this and that and that," you know, or, "You're going above and beyond the extra mile." And then it's like, well, when all the success and rewards come through it's like, "Oh, how did you do that?" And it's like, well, by doing the stuff that you said was too much, by going that extra mile. And in fact, it's biblically commanded. You know? Jesus said if someone asks you to walk a mile, walk two miles with them, you know. It's a, it's part of our, our nature and our mission to go above and beyond in everything that we do. You know? And I, I think that's part of what we can do to maintain our morale as part of our, our own mission, you know. And I wanna go back, though. I wanna go back to why did you join the military in the first place? What was kind of the motivation or the path that shaped you onto that? Yeah, I was in a bad place at that time, right? It was like, it wasn't like I was going to jail or anything, but I could see my future being like maybe a, I don't know, a, a dishwasher rest of my life, right? Like, I went to college, I dropped out. Wasn't good enough for college. You know, it wasn't my thing. And so basically I joined the Army because, you know, I wanted to do something different, right? And so, add on the story, right? So when I, when I was recruited, I said, "Hey, you know, I really don't care what I do." And this is how I joined the Army, also how I got involved in HR. So one of the recruiters said, "Hey, I really don't care what I do. I just need to go sooner than later," right? So I took the ASVAB. ASVAB scores came back. Recruiter said, "Hey, Jason, good news. We can get you out of here within like two or three weeks," right? "There's two jobs we can do." First job was, and remember at the time I'm 18, like 18 or 19 years old, so keep that in mind. First job was a, be a parachute repairman, right? Basically like repair parachutes, right? Sew them back up, right? They showed the video. It was like 50 dudes in a warehouse, hot and sweaty. And I, and I could go to either Fort Bragg, North Carolina or Fort Benning, Georgia, right? Mm. The next video was an office, all females- HR. In the army they call it AG. So my choice, and I could go to Germany. So a bunch of sweaty dudes, and go to Georgia, North Carolina- or go the office full of females, right? Obviously I picked HR. And, but the army being the army, my first two, my first three months in Germany, I was in an all-male unit, and we were in the field the whole time for the first three months with a bunch of dudes. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah. Never believe the videos the army shows you. Got catfished. That's how, yeah. You got catfished by the army. Yeah, and that's how I got into HR and joined the army, yeah. It happens to the best of us, you know, and I, I think that's, that's so funny. Now, Fort Bragg is an interesting story because I interviewed some people who at- you know were stationed there, and this gentleman was telling me about one of the bars near the base. You know, women would just walk up to you and say, "What rank are you?" And if you weren't a high enough rank, they wouldn't talk to you. Yeah. It's like, oh man- Yes ... I would not wanna be stationed in an area like that. I mean, that just- Yeah, straight go-getters ... that's bad. Yeah. And I, you know, I've interviewed a lot of people who they went home with a woman from the bar. They're, you know, making love, and they glance over, and it's all family photos of their chief with this woman in the house. They're like, "Oh, shoot, what do I do now?" Yeah, so one time I was an officer, right? Somehow this, this, this, this, this at the local strip club, I'll never forget, her name was Chandelier, right? She married three of my soldiers in a year. Three in a year. Yeah, three, divorced three, yeah. I'm like, man, I don't know what Chandelier got going on, but I want no parts of Chandelier. So, so how does that work? You're just doing the paperwork, and you're like, wait, is this, is this a coincidence, or is this the same- Yeah you're like, this is the same person. Yeah. And then it happens again. Yeah. Like, damn. Yeah, it was crazy. Wow. There's only 12 months in a year too, so that's, that's- Yeah, she was going through them, yeah. I was gonna say, that's a fast rotation. I, I know there was women doing that over at the nuke base, but they were trying to, they were grabbing the the bonuses. You know, and it was like, it was hard. I remember going to any store or any restaurant I went to, talking to, even the post office, you're, you're talking to, to women, and they've dated, like, two or three nukes each. And it's like, oh, where, where can I find a woman who hasn't dated a nuke? I know. You know? I know, right? Yeah. And i- it's bad too, and it's like, yeah, I remember. I remember I, I... Like, one of the first dates I went on in nuke school- Yeah ... she was like, "Oh, you're a nuke." And I was like, "Oh, you know what that is?" She's like, "Yeah, my two exes are nukes." And ins- that was, like, one of many red flags that night. Big, big, it's a red- I'm like, oh the reddest red flag. Yeah, and then you realize, like, hmm, you got a very expensive car, very expensive clothing, but you have no job and two kids and no, no husband. It's like, where do you get all this money from? And it's like nuke killer. I need to make a song, like, instead of she's a man eater, you know- That'd be funny she's, she's a nuke grabber, you know? She just snags the nuke bonuses. I remember my, my, this one guy in my division recommended me. He goes, "Mr. Whiskey, you've got a pretty good-looking sister. You should use her to steal all the money from the nukes you don't like." And I was like, "Dude, I'm not, I'm not selling off my sister to, to steal nuke money." But you know, her and I don't even talk anymore, so maybe I should have taken advantage of that while I could have. But yeah, it's, it's bad. So I actually, I... If, if you wanna get into that conversation, you spent a long time in the military. Was it kinda one and done easy relationship life for you or was there some rough patches? Was there some times where you didn't know what was harder, you know, being in the military or being in a relationship? In, in fact, I, I recently performed stand-up comedy, and I was originally going to joke about dating in the military, and I was like, I was... Yeah, I was combat deployed. I wasn't in the military, I was in the relationship, you know? Yeah. Well, the thing about the military, o- of course everyone, you know, knows that we deploy, do that kind of stuff, but this is a sacrifice I don't think people realize, right? Like, so me and my wife, we had three kids in the Army, right? But during the time in the military, like, none of my kids' grandparents or aunts or uncles seen anything they did, right? No plays, no football games. We spent- Mm ... no Thanksgivings or Christmas with our family, right? Same thing with us. All the nephews and nieces, we never seen anything they did, right? Wow. And then being in the Army, so you mess up relationships, right? I don't think people talk about that. And then being in the Army, like, I would work, you know, like, long hours, right? So a lot of times... Now don't get me wrong, I was able, like, you know, my kid had a game or whatever going on, I was able to take time off and go to it. But a lot of times you just miss, right, just being gone 12 hours a day, right? Or deploying. Like, there's so, there's so much stuff you miss. Like, I missed my son's first four birthdays. I, I missed so many events, right? And I think that's one thing that people don't really talk about as far as, like, sacrifice. Of course they talk about deployments and all that kind of stuff, but, like, just the day-to-day stuff you miss. Like, like, my kids never had a Christmas with their grandparents, you know? You know, you know. Wow. Of course they're all grown now, but those kind of things, you know? And that's why your relationship in the Army or military is so much stronger because, like, you're, if, if you're in, like, Wiesbaden, Germany, if you have no family, you're gonna, you know, find fellow military members to hang out with, you know? Right. Yeah, no, I agree. That's the part that most people don't realize, and I know people, you, you know, have looked at that. Like, when you raise your kids on base, some of them only go to school with other kids from the base. They don't get any of that, like... I don't wanna liken it to homeschooling, but it's almost like you are being raised in a bubble to a degree, unless you have you know, a partner who is taking them off base to purposefully get them exposed and spending time with other people. So I- Yeah ... I definitely think it's a sacrifice. And then also you talked about having to raise your kids in another country sometimes. You know, like, I've talked to some people while I was traveling Japan who, like- They had to raise their kids on the base in Japan, and it's like they grew up very differently, and then they moved to America at a certain age. Or sometimes they move multiple countries in their lifetime as a kid, you know, just between the ages of, you know, five and 10 years old, and it, it makes it really hard for them to maintain relationships. Nowadays it's a little bit easier with technology, but even still, you know, you're never hanging out with these people. You're always having to reintroduce yourself, reestablish yourself, and I think that is a huge toll on the children. And, you know, you talked about- Yeah, so my, my-- so, so my kids, they went to eight schools in 12 years. Wow. And they went to school in Fort Hood, Texas, Wiesbaden, Germany, Vicenza, Italy, Columbia, South Carolina Seoul, Korea, Liberal, Kansas, and then finally in Steilacoom, Washington. So yeah. Wow. Now you talked about all those different transitions. You were working HR. So was that you requested to be moved to a new station, or they said, "Hey, listen, Cavness, you gotta, you gotta go somewhere else. Like, we've got billets. Pick your choice. You gotta get out of here"? Yeah, it was usually like they d- they just, they... One, one thing I was able to do, like, I was kind of-- they would tell me I had to move, I was able to pick my assignments most of the time, right? Okay. I would say, "I wanna go here, I wanna go there," or d- the different options, right? You know. Of course, it'd be based on the job and stuff. Yeah, mostly it was them telling me it was time to go. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is, you know... At least I was able to p- have some choices to go pick where I want. And a lot of people, they say, "Okay, okay whatever. You're going to, you know, Fort Bragg, or you're going to Korea." A lot of people don't have a choice. But I was able to, like, use my, like, resource and connections to like, you know, get what I wanted, so to speak. Right. And that's one thing a lot of podcasters have asked me, which is like, "Mr. Whiskey, if you could fix the military, what are some things you would implement?" And one of them I talk about is, like, the fulfillment of the dream sheet. Like, we have enough billets and enough people. Obviously, retention and recruitment are down a lot, but we could create a rotation where people are actually getting what they want in exchange for the military service. So, you know, if they said to me, "Mr. Whiskey, you just joined." Sit down with a real, like, an actual professional career advisor, not just some random soldier or sailor that they task with this job on top of their job, but someone who's, like, actually gonna sit down and plan with you, like, "Looking at the next few years, what do you wanna do?" And for me, I would've said, "Hey, I really want to, at a young age, get married and have kids. I'd really like to have a shore tour on the initial half, a, a, you know, sea tour on the second half, and these locations would be more ideal." And they, they have the billets and resources to do it. I think it just, they just jumble it all together and then it-- What, what's so unfortunate for me is, like, there are people who want certain positions who get told, "No, it's full." And it got filled with people who didn't want it. You know, like you volun- sometimes I find it ironic how there are people who are volunteering for positions in the military, and they don't get it, and then there's people who are being voluntold to do it. And it's like, now if you just swap those two people, you could have kept two more people for maybe 20 years. But instead- Yeah ... you, you screwed over the person, you took away the passion from the person who wanted to volunteer. You took away the passion from the person you voluntold, and now they're both just not gonna re-enlist. So I think the military screws itself over sometimes when it comes to fulfilling those roles and billets, and they can do a much better job of placement. Obviously, it's a huge organization, lots of moving parts, so it's easier to just say on a podcast than to actually implement it. But I think it can be restructured to be more beneficial. Now, you talk with your personal experience, having it, it sounds like it went pretty well for you. What would you say-- I'd love to go over worst and best, starting with, I guess we'll start with the worst. Out of all the places you were stationed, what was your least favorite time? So for that, let me, let me, let me s- so I haven't answered your question, like why the Army does that. And so, and it's theory that works, but w- this what happened. So when I was in Korea, my first two years in Korea, I was basically in charge of making assignments for everyone who came to Korea, right? Anyone from E-1 to lieutenant colonel, it was my job to assign them, right? And like there's like this- Okay ... I forgot what it's called, right? There's a process you go through, like, like... So, so basically what happened, a commander would say, "Hey, I want someone with this skill set," right? But if you send them somewhere else, they would turn that person down, right? Mm. And so a lot of times it was commander saying, "Hey, I want this specific skill set." And you would send them people like, "No, that's the wrong person," right? You, you would say, "Hey, this person wants to come here." They're like, "No, I want this skills. I want this person," right? And, and a lot of times too, like, so example, how I put this, so suppose there's a unit, and they say they need, and suppose you say, "Hey, we're gonna send you 10, you know, of 10 of X," right? The commander will come back and say, "Well, no, actually I need 20 of X," right? And so you have to do, redo the whole thing over again, right? Mm. But a lot of times it's just like commanders pushing back saying, "No, I need, I need more, I need more this." Another thing too, like let's suppose the Army needs 1,000 of whatever, right? And but there's only 500 of them, right? You have to kind of like rank and like, you know, based on like military career, different things. You have to like do military, all these factors come into it, right? But at the end of the day, the commander can say, "Well, no, I don't want this person. I, I don't want this," right? And that's why, especially you get a higher rank you get, you know, 'cause like, we would go to, from Korea, we would go to, we would go to Fort Can- Fort Leavenworth, Kansas once a year, right? And they would like handpick the majors they want to come be in their unit, you know? So there's a lot of like, personnel management goes into it, and it's-- And the best one would be like, "Hey, go where you wanted to go," but like, you know, everyone's gonna want to go to Hawaii. Everyone's gonna want to go different things, you know? So it's- It's very complicated, especially the higher up you work you get. As far as my least and wor- least and worst p- places, like I actually don't have a least or best place, right? I enjoyed all my, all, all my locations, right? Even, like I, I put it like this. So my wife and oldest daughter loved Germany the best. I loved Italy the best. My other two kids loved Korea the best, right? Mm. But we never had, we never had a bad assignment, right? It's, it's... And that's just 'cause like we, we always had like good people around us. And I, I joke around, you could be anywhere in the world as long as you have a little bit of money and then some, a few good friends, right, and your family, right? So yeah. I can't think of a place where like, "Oh man, I hated this place," or, "This place sucked," or like- Right. Well, you kinda just hit the, the, the, the nail on the head so to speak because I always speak about people talk about what ruins re-enlistment, what ruins retention, what ruins port calls, what ruins where you're stationed, and I says the command climate. Because I've seen people who were in a beautiful place, like Hawaii you mentioned is a really sought-after location, but they had a terrible chain of command and they didn't re-enlist. And then I've seen people who were in Newport News, Virginia, which is probably one of the worst places you can be stationed based off what I personally went through, and all the people you can talk to in the Navy and Army and everything over there will tell you Newport News, Virginia, is horrible, and there are some people there who had great leadership. They loved their, you know, the people they were working with, and they re-enlisted. So I, I, I do think it's a lot about, you know, making the most of it. And I, I think too, I think at least with a lot of the young men, the issue is their mindset around what a station of command is supposed to be. You know, every time I ask people, like, "Is this place a good place?" Or, "Is this place a good place?" They would say, "No, man, there's no bars to go drinking and, or no clubs to party at." I'm like, "Well, that's not what I asked." You know, everyone was so focused, especially young men, 18, 19, 20 years old, that's what made a port call good to them, or that's what made a station or a command good to them. And they were like, "You, you would only like, you know, Groton, Connecticut, or Kings Bay, Georgia, if you're a family man. Otherwise, there's no partying or clubbing." And I was like, "Okay, but what about everything else in life? What about nature trails? What about restaurants? What about mall?" Like, there's so much more to life, but people get so focused on making their deployments or their port calls or their stations just like party central, and it's like there's so much more to that. And I think so many young men, and, and I personally witnessed this and even experienced this, waste their chains of command and their, where they're stationed because they're focused on the wrong things. There's so many people I know, like I was stationed in Charleston, South Carolina, for a while, and some people had never gone to Charleston. They had never left base, or they had just only gone to bars and had never checked out some of the historic sites or the other things there are to offer. So I think it's really about what are you looking at. Like you said, if you have a, a, a bit of money and some good friends who get you off of base and will do things with you other than just dr- you know, getting blackout drunk, making regrettable decisions, all marrying the same stripper in the same year, there are good things to do. Yeah, I mean, and from my experience, everyone I knew that went to Hawaii, they all said they hated it, right? You would think, well, they love it. Everyone hated it. Everyone who went to Fort Drum, New York, like up northern New York, like s- blizzards every day, they loved it, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it really depends on, on the, you know, the command. And you talked a little bit about leadership and, and your role as an officer earlier on. I wanna get into focusing on leadership and, you know, command climate because a toxic command climate can really hurt recruitment, it can really hurt retention, it can really hurt productivity. It kinda destroys everything. It's very corruptive and poisonous, and we've seen a lot of terrible military leadership. I have shared in many episodes leadership who called us government property, who said "Under a certain rank you're not... You don't have rights." You know, there, there have been some horrible leaders in the military who let rank and power become justification and go to their head. So Mr. Caviness, when we talk about being an officer especially, having a little more power and a little more re- respect and, and rank to you when it comes to leadership, what comes with that when it comes to, you know, being a good leader, when it comes to not being a bad leader, when co- comes to holding other leaders accountable? I mean, I think first of all you gotta think that your people that work for you, they're all, they're all motivated by different things, right? Might be money, might be like promotions- Mm ... might be just... And so everyone needs different things, right? And it's your job to try to figure out what it is, right? Like, I had once one, one E5, you know, he just wanted to be home with his family, right? He wanna do that. Other people are motivated by different things. And I think the biggest thing you do as, as a leader, right, like one thing I did e- every job I had within the first 90 days, I got rid of at least one person or two people, right? Because they were like toxic, not performing right. Like, for example, when, when I f- took the job in Korea, this one E6 wasn't there for like the first 30 days 'cause, you know, they get 30 days vacation or leave in, in, in Korea, right? First 30 days everything is like bright, you know, lighthearted, people having fun doing their job. This person came back and it's like a darkness came over everyone, right? Mm. Like, "Oh, okay. You, you, you gotta go," right? So those kind of things. So I did a good job of like assessing who I had. Okay, this person needs to leave, right? So addition by subtraction, so to speak. And you said you gotta have like, a sincere concern for the wellbeing of your people, right? You need... I mean, people say- Right ... "Oh, know what people are doing," but you know, you know, like if you're someone who works for you and their daughter has a birthday on Friday, maybe you get that guy the day off, you know, if you can, right? So one thing I do when I, I was commander of Italy, right, I had a rule that everyone got their birthday off, right? So the first person was my first sergeant, second person was my lieutenant, and the third person was my warrant officer. So first three birthdays, the three highest ranking people below me, right? Next birthday was the E4. And I walked in, he's working on his birthday, right? I, I, I, I... The guy in charge, I just tore him apart, right? Like, "What the fuck are you doing?" Right? Like, "Are you kidding me," right? "Oh, I need him to rap out today. I know it's his birthday." I was like... I told him, "How does it look like I gave the f- top three high-ranking people birthdays off, and this E4 not," right? Are you like, "You trying to ruin my command? What are you doing here, guy?" Like- Right. Wow. And so I, I said, "So to make up for it," he, he... So it was like, that's like at 10:00 in the morning when I found out, right? I said, "He's gonna have the rest of the day off, and he's gonna have two four-day weekends." "But sir, I can't afford to have him gone that long." Wow. "You better figure it out. You better give it to other people," right? And after that, yeah. And another thing, too, a lot of people, like, they, like, yell at you and stuff. Like, I was never a yeller, right? But I would give people this look, right? Like, people are like, okay, there's, there's the, there's the Captain Darth Vader look, right? Yeah. Yes. And another thing, too, I would do, too, like, I would joke around, like, I, I had a thing I would say, like, "Everyone gets a vote, but sometimes your vote don't count," right? Like, I, I am still in charge. I, I'll take your ideas, but yeah, sometimes you gotta do what you wanna do, right? But you always have to take your, at least g- at least make people feel they have a vote, right? Like, at least have a voice. Like, hey. And a lot of times I would go, "Hey, man, I ain't got time for this," right? Just do what you wanna do, like, you know. I give them, like, left and right limits. What was I saying? Give people high standards and you're surprised how often they reach it. Hmm. Give people low standards, and you'd be surprised how often they reach the low standards, right? But you always have to, like- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Of course, you gotta, you know, keep the cur- like, the pe- the families in mind, what they're doing in mind. Yeah, it's just different things. I mean, each person has to be treated differently, right? And yeah, it's a- Agreed. I think, yeah, I think the most important part you made was talking about the caring for their well-being and those, those seemingly small things, that their kid has a soccer game or whatever it is, making accommodations for them to actually have a life, you know. Because we talked already, it's hard to balance that lifestyle. And if you can give them any more balance to it without costing you the mission, then, you know- Yeah ... so much more that does for morale, for their, their work drive. I think birthdays are a great example, 'cause I know plenty of people who stood watch on their birthday, and they're like, "This is BS, man." You know, "It's my birthday," and- That is so, so messed up. Yeah ... you know, I gotta tell a funny story about watch, is whenever I stood overnight watch, it happened to line up... Well, it happened to line up that every time I stood watch... Or let me put it this way. Every year when it was daylight savings time to fall backward an extra hour, I was standing midnight watch. So I had got an extra hour of watch, and I was like, "Are you kidding me?" And every time I had a weekend off- It was daylight time spring ahead. So I always got an extra-- For like three years in a row, I got hit with w- midnight watch on a day of falling back and getting an extra t- hour, and then springing forward on my day to sleep in. And it just lined up that way three years in a row, and that wasn't, you know, leadership's fault. That was just uncanny. And I'll tell you, I, I feel any time the clocks change now, I'm, I'm thinking to myself like, "How many of y'all are staying at midnight watch right now?" I feel bad for you. Ah, man. But I'm in the comfort of my bed now, so I don't feel bad for me, you know? Yeah. And one thing crazy about the ar- like, I know in the Army, like we would do 24-hour duty, right? So you do duty all-- You work all day long. Yeah, duty. Yeah. Y- you do duty, and you get off like 8:00 in the morning, and then you just drive home, right? Like you've been up for 24 hours, you know. You've, you've been up 24 hours suppose, but, but yet it's okay if you drive, you know. Definitely gonna... I never want... Always when I come, like there was no more accidents or like people are getting hurt from driving home after being so tired, but maybe 'cause you're so hyped up, ready to go home, you know. There, there is a spike in your, in your alertness because I used to work midnight shifts, rotating shift work at a acid, a chemical plant that manufactured sulfuric acid, and I'll tell you what, it was like the whole shift I was tired, I was ready to go to bed. And then on the drive home and as soon as I got home, I could not fall asleep. I was like- Yeah ... I got energy to do stuff. It's like I'm free. I'm free. Yeah. It's like some- Yes. Yeah ... places just drain you sometimes, so it, it was interesting to see that. But yeah, to your point, like it's dangerous and it's, it's, you know, like even there are laws and regulations around how many hours you're supposed to have behind the wheel. I know in the Navy, I think you need a minimum of four. Don't quote me on that, anyone. Don't, don't blame me. I didn't, you know. But it's written down somewhere in like the NAFURS or the, the manual for the Navy, whatever, and even truck drivers are only allowed to drive for a certain amount of time, and are required to get a certain amount of rest, you know. So it, it's crazy to think that, and we had some duty day rotations that were pretty miserable. You know, you're talking about every other day, and sometimes it was, you know, you're working nine hours, and then you go home, and then you wake up early, do a 24-hour shift, and then you have work the next day for like, you know, eight to nine hours, whatever it is that's going on at your command, and then you go home. And then we talk about when you're going home, now you gotta catch up with talking to your family. Maybe you gotta get the oil changed on your car. You gotta run to the, the mail box. There's always some kind of errand to do too, so in your limited free time. And I, I talked earlier about in the nuclear program it's especially difficult because you have no phone during most of that time. You know, having a relationship I think in the nuclear program is even more difficult because of the no phone even, you know. So now you're really cut off from your partner, and you talked about a wife and children. How did you meet your wife, and at what age did you get married? So I got married at 27. We're, we're both from the same hometown. I actually graduated from high school with s- two of her brothers. So, so I've known her for a while, yeah Okay, so you were from the same hometown, but then you went off into the Army. So how did you two kind of re- reconnect? I was in the Army. I got out, went to college, and I met her. I was in college and then went back to Army, and we got married during that time period. We got married when I was still enlisted, and afterwards went to O- went to OCS. That's true. But she was... So I, I was probably I'm making this up. I think I was in the... I was think probably single in the Army maybe five of the 25 years, and married the other 20, I think, if I have the m- if my numbers correct, yeah. But yeah, she went everywhere with me, like Korea, Italy, Germany, all those different places, yeah. Like I said, her and my oldest kid like Germany the best for some reason. Hmm. I like, I liked Italy. Yeah. Yeah, that's- But every location was good. One thing my wife, she was... Somehow, like every place I went to I could l- I could learn the language. To this day my wife can speak a little German, a little Italian, a little Korean. Like s- to this day she could go to Germany right now and like buy apples or order dinner, whatever, you know, where, where I can't, right? Yeah. I always get that. The, the reason I ask is because, so looking at did you go to college with the intent to, to become an officer? Or did you go to college and then decide to go back into the Army? The second one. The second one, yeah. I was- I went to, I went to c- back to college and then decided to go back in and become an officer after, after I finished college the s- the, the first time, or the second time, yeah. So what did you go to college for, and then why did you decide to go back into the Army? So I'd, I'd always wanted to be the Army officer. That's one of my goals. And staying enlisted I, I couldn't get there fast enough 'cause I didn't have enough college, right? And so I gotta go to college. In college I studied... So my bachelor's degree is in political science 'cause I actually wanted to be a l- either, I wanted to either wa- I wanted to be like either Army officer or a lawyer and get into politics, right? But then I went the, on the Army, the Army route. And then I got my master's while in the Army from the University of Oklahoma in Master of Human Relations. I got that while I was in Germany. Hmm. But it's like a means, a means to end, I guess, yeah. But yeah, one of my goals always to be an officer, so yeah, I was able to meet that goal. Now, why did you wanna be an officer? What, what about it was kind of appealing to you? I don't know. That's a good question. Maybe it's a status thing. I never really answered that question myself, right? Maybe it's a status thing. Maybe it's the money. Like example, when I was OCS, like OCS like is not an easy thing to do, right? And, and underneath the bed above me, and so I was bunk beds on the bottom bunk bed, in the springs in the bed above me I had the Army retirement, right? I had, and, and if I stayed enlisted I'd probably retire as a E-7. If I retired as officer, probably major, right? And so I had those two, the, the retirement pay for E-7 and the retirement pay for major- Hmm highlighted, right? Retirement pay for O-4 is just a little bit higher than E-7, right? So that's like, you know- Right ... kind of what I mean. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I totally get that. I mean, I, I think about if anyone had said, "Mr. Whisky, you could become an officer," I would say, "Okay, yeah." I don't see any downside to it, right? I get new title, new rank, new f- fancy crisp uniform and all that, so I totally get that. And how- I, I will, I will say this The army was a whole lot more fun as enlisted as officer, right? I- I can believe that. I had way more fun as enlisted, yeah. But people don't realize all the shit officers have to go through, right? Especially majors and captains like this. Yeah, it's, it's so much, right? Like, I remember being enlisted like, "Man, Captain So-and-so don't do shit," you know? I quickly learned, no, Captain So-and-so was doing a lot of shit he just didn't know about. Yeah. Well, we as enlisted sailors in the Navy, we jokingly call officers pencil pushers. You know, they just- Yeah, yeah ... you know, they don't actually do work. And it's funny, actually, I mentioned it one of the jokes I was hoping would get more laughter at Military Creator Con when I performed stand-up comedy is I talked about the Vietnam veteran I met. I said, you know, I, I called him sir. And he goes, "Don't call me a sir, I work for a living." Yeah. Now, I don't know if that's every branch. I know Navy, that's huge. Like, if you call a Navy sailor a sir usually if they're a veteran or whatever, they'll be like, "Don't call me a sir, I work for a living." You know, they try to say like- Yeah. "I'm a, I was enlisted. I take pride in that." You know? I wasn't an officer- Obviously, yeah ... sitting around. And, and, and in the defense of the enlisted, on my ship, which was going through refuel and overhaul, the officers had their own private galley room with, like, furnished seats, and they had all-you-can-eat brownies and cookies and ice cream. They had, they had the goodies set up. Meanwhile, we were fighting... There was, like, almost physical fistfights over a single Uncrustable that someone found, you know? So it's like we, we had no cookies, the soft serve was down. We got them maybe once a week, once every few weeks. Meanwhile, the officers had, like, the dessert buffet. So we were like, "Look at them just living their cushy life with all their desserts." That's funny. Yeah. So- Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of what distinguished the officers in, in our head was they don't do much, and they get dessert all day. But for, for, in the Navy, and you can let me know if this is an Army thing, not for officers. Officers are always usually in good shape in the Navy, but the higher your rank, the bigger your weight. It was kind of like when you went from chief to senior chief to master chief, you just got bigger and bigger, and then officers were in shape. Oh, yeah. We had some fat officers, no doubt. We had some big people. Like, yeah, like, damn. Like, how is he, how you, how does that uniform even fit you, right? You're like, man. Do, do you know about in the Navy we call it the chief's button? So the last button on every chief's uniform doesn't close. No, I've never heard of that one. And technically it's out of regs. Yeah. But they're like, "It's my chief's button." So they get one, they're allowed up to one button un- that doesn't close on their stomach, and it's- That's funny ... it's okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's just... See, that's, that's one thing I do miss, the little inside military jokes, stuff like that. I'm sure, you know, you could relate to some of that. And you, you talk about having fun in, as an enlisted, so can you tell us, 'cause, 'cause this is a podcast, I'm sure you've had plenty of some I don't wanna say unhinged, but maybe some more shocking stories from your time in the Army that you could share here. Oh, man. Let me, give me a minute to think about it. I can't think of nothing off the top of my head. Yeah. Yeah. I know I- You don't have to snitch on yourself about anything. Yeah. But anything that the statute of limitations are expired, feel free to, to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Let me... Let's, let's go back to that. I can't think of nothing right now. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely have some of that. Let me, let me think about, about... Yeah. Unhinged moment. Well, you know, it could be even s- stupid stuff th- 'cause I've interviewed plenty of people. There's, there's just some dumb stuff that Army people get into, and it seems like more than Navy people. Navy people get into plenty of stupid stuff as well, but- Okay, I, I got a good one. So, my f- when I was... First time in Germany, this is Germany, right? Stationed in, in, in, in by, in Gilze-Rijen, Germany. And so I had two friends, Kelcy and Allen Rogers, right? We're all, like, roommates, like, good friends, right? And so we, we would go to this, to this Italian restaurant, like, once a month, right? Go there, get a good Italian meal. And they had this really good, I think it was called Lambrusco wine that we just loved, right? So Lambrusco are kind of like a small glass like that, and back then it was, the money was marked, so, like, it was like four marks a, like four marks a glass, right? We would go there, maybe, like, each get two or three glasses and leave, right? And, like, the fourth time, fourth or fifth time we went there, the waiter says, "Hey I notice every time you come, you buy this Lambrusco, and you spend like f- like four marks a glass, right? You know you can buy the whole bottle for eight, for eight marks." Like, what? Yeah. Let's see about this big bottle of Lambrusco, right? And he, and he, they say "The only thing is, you can't take the bottle with you, right? Whatever you drink, you leave, or you drink the whole bottle." Like, okay, challenge accepted, right? Right. So we drink the whole, so we drink the whole bottle, right? And no way, like, my guy was driving. No way he should have been driving the way he did, you know, back in the day. And so we're driving, and Kelcy's driving way too fast, right? And way too fast, right? Like, he's like, he has a BMW. He's just, you know, driving too fast, right? So Allen slaps him back of the head. "Kelcy, slow your butt down. You, you, I don't wanna die tonight." And Kelcy says, "Man, leave me alone." Allen slaps him again, right? "Slow down, Kelcy." And Kelcy says, "Allen, if you slap me one more time, I'm gonna stop the car and put you in the trunk." Allen stops him, and so Kelcy drives. The next thing, it's like, it's the little suburb, the suburb neighborhood. Parks the car in the middle of the street, and he takes Allen away around for, like, 10 minutes. Like, they're running over cars. Car horns are boom, boom, boom. And so finally he catches him, and Kelcy's pretty strong, right? So he catches him and throws him in the trunk, right? And dude, is he safe back there? No, he's, he's fine. It's, it, you know, there's air back there. And of course, Allen's kicking the trunk. "Get me out, Kelcy. F you. I'm gonna kick your butt. Get me out, Kelcy." And so it's like a 30-minute drive from there to the base, right? And so I guess Allen falls asleep, right? And so the gate- And we forgot all about Alan, right? So at the gate, they're, "Hey, we have to inspect your car." At that instant we remember, oh shit- Oh, no Alan's in the trunk. And so Alan's back there asleep and like... But luckily, like, you know, like, they knew who we were, you know, and Alan was, like, the chaplain assistant, you know? So yeah. But it was like, yeah, that's one thing that was, like, one funny story, yeah. And I'm s- I'm sure I'll think of some more once, once I, once I, more we t- talk through this, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We can, we can ping-pong it. So I mean, I don't have as great an Italian wine story, but we, we took this guy, my, my roommate, he was a strange fella. I mean, he was, he was really strange. And he had never drank before, and he was in his mid to late 20s, and he's decided to get into alcohol. Nothing crazy. So we go to an Italian restaurant, and he had never had wine before. Now, I knew, he had just told me, like, he doesn't like the taste of alcohol. It's, it just does not do it for him. So he would get alcohol in, like, hot cocoa or other stuff, maybe a strawberry daiquiri. And he would get very sweet stuff. And he's looking at these wines, and he tells the waitress, "I want a wine." And she's like, "Which one?" He's like, I don't know. This one." Points to a random wine. Now, listen, wine, wine is not for everyone, first of all, you know? Especially if you don't like the taste of alcohol, if you do want something very sweet. So he picks this random wine. Now, we're at an Italian restaurant. Our, our waitress was from Italy and, you know, I'm, I'm Italian. I don't speak Italian. I know I should. Everyone always asks that. They say, "Oh, you're Italian. Do you speak Italian?" No. "Have you been to Italy?" No. I get that every single time, but, you know. And, and me and my buddy are flirting with her, and then our other friend, the, the weird one, he's... He orders this wine, and he, he takes a sip of it. He's just like, "Ugh." Oh, he, he hated it. So he takes a glass of water and ice, and he starts pouring it into the wine in this Italian restaurant. I'm like, "No." I'm so embarrassed. My Italian genes. I mean, I, I, I could hear, like, the Italian ancestors like, "You gotta stop this man." I mean, this is all my Italian pride on the line. And you know, the waitress comes back and, and she's like, "Is, is he pouring water into this expensive Italian wine?" And I said, "Ma'am, do you not know what Yeshua, Jesus Christ did? This man is an apostle, and as Jesus commanded, he can do all things through Christ, and he's making that water into more wine." So that's how I had to save us. I had to save my Italian pride from being em- embarrassed and humiliated. All the old people, like, they literally turned their heads and looked at us. I was like, n- And that was his, only his second or third time off base, so I was like, "I'm never taking you off base again. You've, you've been banned from leaving base after that incident." You can't, you can't soil a fancy wine with a whole glass of water, so. That's crazy. We didn't have to put him in the trunk, but maybe we should have. Yeah, he deserved to be in the trunk. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, yeah. I remember, it's funny actually. I had always wondered what he would be like if he, he drank a little too much and- I got my wish, but not in the timing I wanted. No. I'm in bed trying to sleep. It's maybe like 22:00 already, you know. For y'all civilians listening, it's 10:00 PM at night. I've got, I gotta wake up at like... I'm gonna wake up at like 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning to study nuclear science, y- you know, all this stuff that I don't wanna study at 4:00 in the morning, but I gotta do it. He comes bursting in the room like the Kool-Aid Man, drunk, and he was a history buff. Now, whenever he was on, he, he was at a computer from 5:00 AM to 20:00 every day. Even on, on Saturday morning, Sunday morning, he had an alarm go off at 5:00 AM to wake up and get on the computer. Pissed me off, 'cause we, we shared a bunk bed, as you've mentioned. And so we're in this bunk bed. He wakes up at 5:00 AM on the weekends. Well, now he comes home past his curfew, 'cause at 20:00 he had a rule, all lights off, all sound off. Like, you know, Whiskey, you can be on your phone, whatever. But, you know, like he almost... He, he had his routine, and I, I had to abide by that. And I, it, I was a respectful roommate. I said, "All right, whatever." He comes home at 22:00 drunk. He sits down at his computer, and whenever he was at his computer he would have about 25 tabs open, and he had all YouTube tabs on two or three times speed, and he would play these world-building history and alien-based video games, and he would have historical documentaries on two times speed. So I'm trying to go to bed, and he decides to turn around. He's like, "Whiskey, let me tell you, in 1880 there was this inn in England, and they had a bed that could fit 20 people." And he starts just like repeating the documentary to me in his half-drunk and slurred words. He's like, "20 people in one bed. Imagine if the bubonic plague had, had, had hit at that same time." And I'm like, "This is what you talk about when you're dr- I'm trying to go to bed. I'm trying to study at 4:00 AM in the morning." And he's like, "20 people all in the same bed. No funny business, but 20 people, strangers, all for one schmeckle." I don't even know what the hell he's talking about at this point. Was it like all... Did he say it was all 20 guys, 20 girls, like mixed up? I, you know what? I don't know. I don't wanna know. He, he was explaining it in, in detail at two times speed to me when I'm trying to go to bed , you know. So it, it was just a, a... That was his drunken state and I was like, well, I guess it's better to be drunk and share history facts than to, you know, as they say in the military, add or subtract to the population. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very true. Very true, yeah. Now, you and I actually, speaking of drinking, I know you're quite the bourbon and whiskey guy yourself, and I, I know you probably have some on your desk right now. But I wanna- Yeah ... go to when you were in your deployments. You talked about Korea, Germany and stuff. Were you kind of a drinking kinda soldier? Did you get to try some rare specialties from other countries, or you weren't in your drinking phase yet? So Germany, you know, has the best beer ever, you know. Like, it- the beer's so, so good. And, and so as far as bourbon, I kinda joke around, like my mentors like failed me in my life 'cause I was drinking Jim Beam and Jack Daniel's way too long. You know, I actually only started like drinking good bourbon like maybe 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, so I got started late. But when I was in Ita- I was in- we were staying in Italy almost three years, we were stationed, so I actually brought back 200 bottles of wine from Italy like, like 20 years ago, right. Did you say 200? 200, yeah. We only- How did you do that? You had them all shipped or...? Yeah. Had them all shipped, yeah. And we got like 10 bottles left now, but of course they're probably undrinkable, you know. There's like collector's items now. But yeah, had 200 bottles. I gave them, gave them away for gifts, drunk some, you know, but yeah. I was able to find a loophole to ship 200 bottles of wine in my house all good, right? Oh, and the only thing is like, like suppose the price of shipping was like $3,000, I'd have paid the $3,000 up front, and I got reimbursed maybe like 2,000 of it, you know. So it's still, still worth the deal, right? Yeah, that's- I mean, how many people can say they, they shipped 200 bottles of wine from Italy, right? Yeah, I was gonna say that's a kinda crazy statement. And, and was every bottle a different type of wine or they, you had like groups of same wines together? There, there was like there some of them were same. The, but a lot of them were different, yeah. Some were for the same, some different, some f- same from different wineries, you know. Yeah. Yeah ... I'm trying to think what... Yeah. No, it's, it's a different wine, different ones, yeah. Different, like different like, like they were Merlot, Chardonnays, you know, all the different kinds. Like M- what's it called? Moscato, the dessert wine. It was, it was a pretty good mixture. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not the biggest winer, so to speak, in, Okay ... both the drinking sense and the complaining sense, but I, I just, I don't know. I'm more of, of taste over... I, I, I'm more of the sweeter, more tropical stuff. But when it comes to wine, like obviously I have, I, I, I'm kinda tempted to go get it now. I have, it's Manischewitz, which is just kosher wine, and it tastes like cran-grape juice. You know? Yeah. Like you don't even know it's wine almost. So that's why I love it. But I've had a couple, I think there was a special white wine my friends had while in Italy actually on a port call in the Navy, and then they found d- a distillery or a store in Virginia that makes it, but they couldn't find it anywhere else. So my one buddy, he would drive like six hours to go pick up this type of white wine, and it wa- it was really good. And I know my neighbor, she's 85 years old, she loves drinking. She does it all night and she has every single bottle of like the 19 Crimes, and some of them you can scan and they have like h- you know, people, the, the celebrity on the bottle will talk to you on y- on your phone and stuff, like a prerecorded message thing. So- Yeah ... I've gotta try a little bit of wine. I'll say my favorite wine ever, I wouldn't really call it a wine. It's considered a wine But it is thick and creamy. It's a coconut petite wine with some white grapes in it, and it's more of like a coconut cream than it is a wine. But they said specialty dessert wine, so, you know, if it counts. You know, I think real wine people they call themselves wine snobs from what I understand definitely would not consider it as one. But that's definitely been my, my wine of choice if I had to drink one. But I wanna go to... I know Italy's great for that kinda stuff, but Korea, I hear a lot of great stories and some troublesome stories from Korea when it comes to drinking talking about that kinda stuff, and it sounds like you were in the capital city, correct? Yeah. I was, I was in Seoul for two years, then to Camp Casey last year. So, the joke in the Army was what's the best way to make E-5 in Korea? Go there as E-6. Oh, man. 'Cause you're probably gonna, you're probably gonna get in trouble for drinking, right? 'Cause there's this thing there, it was called... Man, I can't rem- I think, I wanna say it's called soju juice, right? They, they, you go to a bar- Yeah ... and they give you like a, like basically like a bottle, right, filled up with soju and like a, like, like some kinda juice, right? And you cannot taste any alcohol, right? And man, that got s- people in so much trouble, right? That soju juice, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've, I've heard the stories about that. Soju, karaoke, and a woman is a great way to get in trouble in Korea. Yeah. And I... You know, it's funny, right before we hopped on this episode together, at the time of this recording, I was posting to my Instagram and my YouTube Shorts about... Yeah, I had a clip from my stand-up comedy performance where I talk about this Vietnam veteran telling me how he ranked up. You know, first he got a, he got a divorce, and then he ranked up, and then he got a DUI, and he ranked up. 'Cause we used to joke that in the, in the... I'm sure it sounds like the same in the Army. We would joke in the Navy that, you know, you couldn't be a chief or a senior chief without at least a divorce or a DUI- one or the other, or, or an ARI, alcohol-related incident. But that's 'cause almost every higher-up had, had a divorce or a ARI, so, Yeah ... and it sounds like you managed to avoid both of those, or maybe- Yeah ... not the second one. Yeah, I avoided both of them. You know, I mean, back in the day, of course, you know, you shouldn't drink and drive, of course. But back in the day, people were like, "What do you mean I can't drink and drive? How am I supposed to get home," right? You know, like, "What do you mean I got, I can't drink and drive?" Like, "You want me to spend the night here?" You know? Yeah. I, I remember I I, I, you know, I'll admit I've done it too before, not by choice. But I had a friend who blacked out drank too much, and I needed to take them home. And I was like, "All right. Well, I guess I'm the only capable... Between the two of us, only one of us is capable of driving." And you know- Yeah. Back in the day, the designated driver meant whoever drunk the less. Right, right. Exactly. So that was the situation, and it was so funny because she, she was, like, knocked out drunk, and my eyes were basically crossed. So I was like, "All right. We just gotta st- just hold her steady." And in fact, I watched a, a comedian, a veteran comedian, he was talking about- He was a gate guard for the base, and he goes, "I knew people were drinking not by how they acted, but if they were holding both hands on the steering wheel at 2:00 and 10:00." Yeah. He goes, "Listen, unless you're taking your driver's test, no one holds it at 2:00 and 10:00- No ... unless you're drinking." No one, no one does. Yeah. Holding her steady. So I was holding her steady, and I was listening to Philip Anthony Mitchell, he's a, a pastor out of Atlanta, Georgia. Very bold, loud preaching, and I had him blasting, you know, on the car ride home. And she, she's out of it. You know, she passed out twice. She threw up all over. She, she throw up all over herself. She wakes up to just this pastor yelling, "You are going to hell. You over there, sister with the crystals on your neck, you are going to hell." And she wakes up, she's like, "Me? Where am I at?" And she just goes, "Oh, forget it." And she goes back to sleep. And y- we got home and she, you know, she came to her sense. She goes, "Mr. Whiskey, when I woke up and heard the pastor in the car, I knew I was in good hands." I was like- Yeah ... "I'm glad you felt that way 'cause I couldn't see where we were driving." I was- I said, "I put all in the pastor because he said we drive by faith, not by sight." So I was like, I was just trying to, you know, utilize that to get us home. But yeah, I, I was like, "If I get pulled over, I hope there's a Good Samaritan law or something." But they're probably just gonna lecture me on how nowadays there's Uber and Lyft. And I was like, "Well, I, I didn't have the app downloaded on my phone, and I was too drunk to download the app, not to drive." Exactly. But there, there was actually a funny clip on Family Guy. Of course, I don't encourage it, but I think Peter Griffin says kinda just drinks so much that he goes, "Well, every time I just drink too much, I just always wake up home." He goes, "Every time it works." You know? Goes, he'll, he'll drink and then he'll just wake up. He goes, "Oh, see, I'm home. I don't know how I got here, but I'm home." So yeah. I've heard about that soju. I haven't tried it yet. You know, I, I went to Japan and hopefully I'll be going back for about two months, two and a half months this summer, and I do plan on trying a little bit of tasting here and there, checking out some different distilleries. I had a beautiful, almost clear whiskey that was like a special Lunar New Year edition while I was in Japan, and I have never been able to find it again. And I didn't take a picture of it at the time. I didn't write down the name of it. I didn't commit it to memory, or I did, and I drank enough that I did not remember the name of it. So I am definitely trying to find that again. But if it has a special Lunar New Year label, I have a feeling that it's gone. It's a new year, so... What's your go-to bourbon now, though? My go-to is Buffalo Trace. Oh, yeah, we talked about this. Just a classic. It's like a, a decent price point is you can make old fashioned that you drink and need is this, this my go-to, yeah. That's Buffalo Trace is my go-to, yeah. That's, yeah Yeah, I'm in my journey right now where I'm just trying different things, trying to find what I like or don't like. I, I think I may have mentioned to you at Military Career Con, I tried it. It was an almost black liquid bourbon from Texas that was t- it tasted like barbecue ribs. You know, like it was- Yeah, I remember that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I, I tried. And in case you started drinking, I actually brought this more rare Johnny Drum with the, the wax seal, so they don't make them anymore that style, I believe, so. So I have this one. What do you got? Two bars. It's it's a whiskey out of Seattle called 2 Bars, and the owner's actually from Texas, so his family owns a ranch in, in Yoakum, Texas called 2 Bars, so he named his ver- bourbon after, after 2 Bars. And the guy who owns it, Na- Nathan Kasier, he's from, he's from... He lives here in Seattle now, but from Texas. He's actually a sponsor for my Deep Tech event, so I'm gonna give him a shout-out. Yeah. Well, speaking of, so, we, we talked about the military quite a bit, but you mentioned in the beginning now you're doing a lot of technology stuff. You talk about Vietnam, you talk about America Deep Tech, AI, robotics. Definitely we're in a turning point in history when it comes to robotics and AI. So what got you into that, going from the HR guy? And I just wanna clarify for us listening, to most civilians HR means just like, you know, r- you know, just employee to employee, employee to boss relationships at the workplace. Is that the same thing in the Army- No ... or is it a slightly different role? It's slightly different. Like, example I use, like, you know, in the Army or the military, if you leave a job you get a reva- you get an evaluation award, right? Like, if you leave Microsoft, you're not getting an award, right? You know, Microsoft's not gonna help you move from, you know, Seattle to Denver probably, right? But the Army does all that stuff for you, like help you. They give you awards, give you evaluations, performance management. They, yeah, they, it's... To me it's just way harder, right? 'Cause, like, i- i- if you c- if you change the job, you get an evaluation. If you change whatever, you get, you get to move, right? I think it's just so much more in the military that goes with it, right? Mm. Just my opinion, yeah. And so I- So how does that transition into robotics and AI? So, so I, I, I joke around I'm probably the most non-tech tech person you'll ever know, right? So, like, when I, when I retired in 2015 I was on LinkedIn trying to find a job, right? And this guy reached out to me, "Hey, Jace, you don't know me, but so-and-so said I should reach out to you. So I have a startup called My FO. We wanna help college grads and college, and military veterans find jobs by doing skills tests. Can we meet in person and you tell me how the Army's gonna help you find a job?" Like, sure, but one question for you: whatnot in the world is a tech startup, right? Like, you just can't start a company. Like, Amazon already exists, Microsoft exists, so you laugh or whatever. He gives me a quick one-on-one on, on, like tech startups, right? How like, you know, you have to do, like, build MVPs, product market fit, business development, all that kind of stuff, right? And that's how I got involved with it, right? And kinda just got the bug, right? 'Cause there's so many cool people building cool things, right? And at first, like- Like, most, 90% of startups and small businesses fail because of whatever reason, right? Yeah. 'Cause I was at a networking event two days ago, and this guy did a demo for a drone that does, like, some crazy stuff, right? In robotics. Like, people don't realize how far robotics have come. You know, like, pretty soon everyone's gonna probably have a robotic in their house, like, doing the stuff they don't wanna do. Like, like, who wants to wash dishes and, and wash clothes and do laundry, right? When a robot can do it for you, right? And then with the AI, AI's, like, getting more advanced, advanced every day, right? Of course they talk about AI taking people's jobs, but, like, think about every generation, like way back in the day, oh the car's gonna take all the jobs, right? The, the, but the jobs were, like... So back in the day, all the horse would shit in the street, right? So someone's job to shovel the shit, right? Mm. Like, do you really wanna do a job shoveling shit, right? I, I just think there's gonna be a lot of... And of course, it's always a cycle, right? I think every, every generation goes through a thing where a new tech comes out. You know, we had the internet. Like, I think the first tech was fire, right? Fire, the w- the wheel combustible engine, on and on, you know. I mean, this tech in the long run is gonna make life better. And for, I think, I'm making this up, I think every, every generation with tech, like, they lose a job, the new tech actually creates two more jobs, right? Mm. Like, now there's a job of prompt engineering. That was never a known thing before, you know? It's, but it's gonna, like, the, the thing is, a lot of people, what's the thing old people w- know? You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Unfortunately, a lot of people are like, "Oh, I've done this all my whole life, right? I don't want to learn a new skill," right? Well, you have to reinvent yourself, right? You have to get, I hate to say, I hate to say you have to get with the times, but you have to get with the times, right? You have to- Yeah ... be flexible and, you know, that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah, you gotta keep up or, or, you know, be lost in it. And I think, you know, I love that analogy of, like, technology is like a Hydra. You know, every time you lose a head, two grow back, in the sense that, yeah. I think I, I love that, you know, like, the horse manure shoveler, right? That's, that's a job we've lost. Or you look at, like, a lot of people who worked on farms have been replaced by different technologies that farmers use instead. So it's it's 100%, you know. But there are new jobs. And I think about, like, as soon as AI started, like, yeah, it started replacing some jobs, and then you saw the bloom of AI coaches, AI engineers, people who make AIs, people who design stuff with AI. You know, it's always how do you use this new tool? Like, it's, it- because it's a tool, right? Yeah. It's, it's only a tool. What new jobs can be created from it, as much as some jobs will be replaced, like you said. But it's, it's, if they become obsolete, why are we pursuing it? Just to have a job Available just to have it available to make a paycheck? You know, why not make a job that is useful and making money rather than just having al- almost these fluff jobs, these filler jobs that we are keeping around just to have, you know. Because I, I had that conversation once with someone where, you know, I was, I was working on trains that were delivering sulfuric acid and sulfur rock, and a guy had to physically get off of the train and manually change the tracks. And I was like, "Couldn't we automize this some way so that whoever is driving the train can change the tracks in advance, you know, using whatever technology?" And his response wasn't, "Hey, what if it fails and then we're on the wrong track?" Or, "What if, you know, two people are trying to change the track at the same time?" His response was, "Mr. Whiskey, then who's gonna get off of the train and switch it and get paid to do that?" So his mindset was, you're taking a job away, not, hey, we just optimized railroad. So now instead of having to stop the train, get off, change the track, and maybe it's only five or 10 minutes, but you do that maybe XYZ amount of times, right? You're talking about added up time. So for me, in my mind, I'm like, so we're getting rid of a job that maybe someone's doing for whatever amount of money, but now we've streamlined railroad transportation even more than it already was. And for me, like the sacrifice of, oh, now this person doesn't have that job it was not that big of a sacrifice to streamline railroad transportation, especially when there are plenty of other jobs to have. Now, I know someone's fear is, well, if AI takes all the jobs, there's no jobs left. What job do we have? But I, I think there are always going to be jobs. I think even you look at like nuclear operators, like the te- technology has advanced where nuclear operators are doing less and less because computers and automatic systems are doing more and more. For example, turning valves. You used to have to turn every valve. Now some of them automatically are operated. But they still need operators to watch the systems in case anything breaks to make sure the computer is working right. Because there-- I don't think we're gonna get to a point where AI is completely perfect. You, you can have AIs fixing AIs that are broken, but there always needs to be another person in that sense. So I think while we may get rid of workers, we're gonna still have operators, if that makes sense. It, it does. It does, yeah. And like you said, AI is just a tool, right? And another thing too, like you heard this stuff about AIs making us dumber. Like I don't know about that. I think AI makes us smarter. I think you maybe you're probably using AI the wrong type of way, you know. Like if you're using AI to say, "Hey, write me a 10-page paper on, you know, physics," right? And you just copy and paste it, that's not the right way to use it, right? You, you have to like... Does it, it does hallucinate. You have to go through the, through the, through several revisions. You have to, you have to use it the right way. I mean, just like back in the day when they, you know, created typewriters, right? People went from writing letters to typewriter, right? So I think it's the same difference, you know? I, I think- 100%. You know, there's a rule, I can't remember what it's called, but the rule is basically like tech doubles, like every 18 months, right? And, and thinking about it like in the last 50 years we've gone from playing Pong to like AI robots in our home, right? So what's gonna, what's gonna happen like next five or 10 years that we don't know about or people are working on, right? Right, 100%. And then something, I guess a side point we definitely should have addressed was you're a podcaster as well. You've been podcasting. You host a show. What, what got you into podcasting? Was it related to the tech and startups, or was it related to the HR, or was it just a completely different inspiration? No. So I started back in the day as, as, as, it was called the Caviness HR Podcast, and I started to market my HR company, right? Mm. So it's 30 minutes long talking to other HR people, right? And I, I, and then I realized, you know what? No HR people are gonna buy my HR product, right? And 30 minutes wasn't long enough, right? Of course, I made a lot of mistakes, right? As I talk about in my talk. But eventually I just, I did several pivots, you know, in person, over Zoom, different camera angles. But then finally I did a lot of iterations, and so in March 2023, I started the, the Jason Caviness Experience, right? So basically, like I've already talked about, I copied Joe Rogan, right? I talk to different people. I found out I'm actually good at asking questions, talking to people. I've had like US Olympians candidates for the Washington State governor race, politicians artists, musicians. I've had the whole nine yards on here, right? And one thing I'm proud of, all, all the guests have said they have a great time. And my, my podcast is actually kind of long, from two to four hours, like I have six bottles of bourbon. What's funny, people will come on and they'll say, "Hey, Jason, you know, I'll come on your podcast, but man, there's no way I can talk over an hour." I say, "No, no worries. Just come on, right, and you just, you know, y- when you're tired just give me a signal, right?" Every time we'll talk like three or four hours, right? And then I'll stop and be like, "Hey, Jason, what happened?" Right? I didn't give you the signal. I could've kept on talking." "Why do you only talk for 30 minutes?" They're like, "Dude, check your watch." "Oh, shit, I talked for three hours?" "Yeah, dude, you wouldn't shut up," right? People, people don't realize once they start talking about stuff they love and care about, just they, they keep going, right? So I'll have to ask you the question that we hear trending around a lot right now. Mr. Caviness, why is long-form important? We are seeing a push towards shorter and short-form. We see the declining attention span. We see the doubling speed of videos. We see the death of long-form, yet we see a huge population in long-form. In fact, one of the most downloaded and listened to podcasts in like a 24-hour period was when Joe Rogan interviewed Trump, and at that time it was, it was like a three-hour podcast or so. You know, it was proof that it's not about long-form, it's about content. So can we kind of get into that conversation of the importance of long-form, the importance of structuring it and the content, and some of the misconceptions around long-form versus short-form? Yeah. With long-form, like if you do a 30-minute podcast, it's kind of easy to hide your true self, right? You're not hiding your true self in a three-hour-long podcast, right? Mm. You know, you ki- you kinda fa- you kinda like fake the funk, be anesthetic, you know, put a show on for 30 minutes, but, like, you're on there for an hour or two hours, like, you can't, you know, like, y- you gotta be your true self, right? And I actually listened to that Joe Rogan President Trump podcast, and to me the favorite part of the podcast was, like, like there's, like, 25 minutes they only talk about UFC, right? In those 25 minutes of whatever you're talking about, President Trump, whatever, those 25 minutes he seemed like a real human being. Like, like, he was a fan of certain UFC fighters. He knew the history of them, right? Like, man, this, this guy might be a genuine person, right? Where if it's only a 30-minute podcast, they're not talking about this kind of stuff, right? And of course, like, n- like, I don't expect anyone to listen to a whole four-hour podcast, right? I know that's not gonna happen. But that's why, like, I use a t- tool called Opus Pro and do, like, clips. I make, like, 100 clips off the podcast- Oh, yeah. Yeah ... and put it on LinkedIn, TikTok, and then hopefully they'll go back to the, to the actual podcast or whatever. And actually, the, the long podcast, that's me being selfish, right? 'Cause I have a joke, when I start the podcast my IQ was zero, when I was like 125 from talking to all the smart people I talk to about, you know? But yeah, it's... I think long form is the way to go. I just think it's too easy to, like, hide yourself or be fake in a short, short podcast, you know? 100%. You know, my motivation behind it, when I first started my podcast, a lot of episodes were an hour and a half, and it was because we got into, like you said, it humanizes people. Like, I, I feel like now of course everyone has great podcasts. If y- if you are in that 15, 30, 45 minute zone, we're not bashing on you, of course. Some, some people just wanna get straight to the source. And there are certain topics where I'm like, "Hey, I really don't care about your personal interests. Just tell me whatever the business thing is." But there, I think there is definitely a place for long form, especially when I used to drive a lot, and I still drive a lot. Like, share those stories. Like, let me hear about your life, you know? Like, I, I wanna be a part of that, and I've listened to some really long podcasts and I think there's a time and place for it. I think one of the issues is people don't really like to, to pause. They want everything one and done. They don't wanna pause and come back to an episode. And I've done it before, you know. It's not that big of a deal, but I think it's really important, like you said, it has that humanity aspect of it, that actually getting to know a person. And I think when it comes to, like you mentioned, political figures, celebrities, we see just highlight reels of them all the time. We see this media presence, this front that they have to put up. Not, not maliciously. Sometimes that's just, like, the character or the person they had to portray or be. You know, I, I feel like especially, I, I talk about I don't know if I would wanna be president, 'cause I feel like you, you can't relax. You can't have a normal life. You know, even with these celebrities. I just watched the Michael Jackson movie. I mean, man couldn't even leave his house that often sometimes. You know, there's a certain level. I believe that Elvis Presley faked his death to escape that, because it was the only way to have a normal life. You know, there are celebrities, they can't go out shopping. I, I've seen people- That I follow on social media who like try to go to the grocery store today and I got stopped by 20 fans and like shout out to them but I just want to go out to eat or shop, you know. So I think it does give them a, a platform to be human, to be more relaxed. Like you said, talk about a UFC fight or talk about like you and I talked about alcohol today, you know, because I wasn't in a rush to discuss all the nitty and gritty about tech startups because I know you're a long form guy so I, I had no problem being my long form self as well, you know. So I think it is important. I think it shows that, you know, there's a time and place for it and what I would encourage anyone is like just put it out there. You know, people who are gonna wanna listen to it will regardless of the length, you know. People who are interested in a subject, they're gonna listen to it. People who aren't interested in long form aren't going to and that's one issue I've had before. Like I had some people leave some three-star reviews on my podcast saying it's, it's a little long. It's on the longer side." And I said, "Well, listen, i- if you don't like longer podcasts then just don't listen to it. You know? But don't, don't bash on me and give me a, a bad rating and pull down my rankings on Apple Podcast, Spotify, whatever it is because of your personal interest." Right? That's not a, that's not a critique of the show's content. That's, that's a reflection of your personal interest and now you've kind of diminished what I'm doing and what the mission I have and the people I'm serving because of your personal interest rather than the content itself and I, I will say that is one thing about long form and, and listeners that has kind of gotten under my skin which was listen, like that, that's that. You know, like I listened to a five-minute podcast once. Every episode was a five-minute wine review and I said-- And I gave it five stars and I said, "This is a great podcast. I would love to listen to 10 or 15 minutes. If you ever want to do long form content I think it would do well." I didn't give it three stars and say, "Hey, buddy, you're only doing five minutes so your show sucks." I said, "Listen, I love this and if you ever wanna go longer that's great." If someone had said, "Hey, five stars, great content Mr. Whiskey. I think you could dial back on the time," that's one thing but saying, "Oh, three stars 'cause it's just a bit on the longer side and that's not my personal interest." I mean, so that's just a little side rant there but what do you think about that Mr. Cavness? I don't know if you've ever gotten any feedback like that before. N- no I haven't. I think like with, with like long form content like people are multifaceted, right? If you do like a 30-minute podcast you're gonna probably have your own time to talk about one thing, right? But people do different things, have different hobbies, different interests, different jobs, you know, and the only way you're gonna cover all that stuff is you do a long form content, right? 'Cause my podcast we'll talk about tech h- hobbies. Like one thing, a question I always ask like, like what do you for fun or hobbies, right? And one person's hobby was scuba diving, right? So we spent 30 minutes just talking about the details of scuba diving like what, what, what, what's your best place to scuba dive? What's your go-to? What's your bucket list scuba diving place? What kind of equipment? All that kind of stuff, right? And yeah, so it's like I can do this like a softball question, right? But if you wanna know the person, you have to a- it'd be a longer podcast. Yeah. But it's just like, "Hey, do 30 minutes. Let's ask, you know, Jason about only tech stuff," right? That's, that'll take 30 minutes, right? You, you, you wanna know the real person, you, you have to talk longer than that, I think. 100%. And you know, it allows you to go for those deeper questions as well, because sometimes when it comes to addiction recovery, suicide prevention, or domestic violence, human trafficking, some of the, the subjects that I cover on my show, like those are deeper conversations. Sometimes they... Even like the school shooting prevention and safety, like you're unpacking a lot of mental health and other factors that go into why people become school shooters or what they do, you know? So it's more than just that 30-minute window. And, you know, it's, it's, it's about serving to convenience rather than content when you're looking at, well, most people they, they only want 30 minutes because that's the average commute to work or whatever it is. Well- Not for nothing ... you know, this isn't about filling in a time slot for them. This is about giving them the content that provides the questions or conversations that need to be discussed. So, you know, it, it's about that. And so I, I wanna ask you your own question, Mr. Caviness. I'm gonna, gonna steal that from you. I'm gonna take it and throw it back, which is hobbies. So I, I don't know if you even have time for hobbies. It sounds like you're a busy man, so. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I, I like, I really don't have any hobbies. Like, I listen to music. I like I like hanging out with friends. Like yesterday I, I, I hung out with my friend Mark in Anacostia. So here I'm a, I'm, I'm in Seattle. My podcast here is a place called Pioneer Square, like the first neighborhood in Seattle. So the first Thursday every month they do a thing called the Pioneer Square Art Walk, right, where the whole Pioneer Square is like all the art galleries are free. Mm. There's live music everywhere. It's like, it's just a good time, right? I do, I do stuff like that. I consider the podcast a hobby sort of, kinda, you know. I like going on nature walks. But that's probably like, like people consider a hobby. Like, I don't paint, I don't play the guitar. There a lot of things I wanna learn how to do, I just don't have the time, you know? I, I, and I do like a mini vacation every day. Like, I'll go have a beer with a friend, you know? So actual hobbies, like I'm not, I don't have like a Lego set or anything like that, you know? So yeah, I probably need a... I mean, I, I, I'm pretty sure you you can't consider drinking bourbon a hobby, but yeah, that's probably- I was gonna say drinking's your hobby, but Yeah hey, it's better to be a hobby than a career when it comes to drinking, I suppose. Yeah. Right? You don't want it to be your full-time occupation, but yeah. Well, you talked about music, which you know, I think that's great. Are you looking to get into making mu- your own music, or you just love the consumption of music? And if so, what genres? I just, I just like listening to live music. I mean, there's nothing like it. So where I'm at, two doors down, or actually two, three or four doors down, there's a place called Central Saloon, right? So Central Saloon's been open since 1892. All the big Seattle groups got started there. Like, like Nirvana started there, Heart started there. Any big-time Seattle rock group you know of started there, right? And to this day they still have, like, two or three music music acts every night, right? What's kinda funny is, like, I, I don't go there as often as I should because, like, I live, like, an hour away, so I have to drive home or catch the bus home, and the concerts, like, start at 9:00 at night, right? But the times I've went, I probably been, like, four or five times, it's funny. Like, a band will go on, you're like, "Man, you are so good. Like, what are you doing here," right? "You should be, like, selling out stadiums already. Like, man, you're so good," right? Another band will come on, like, "Man, you must have no friends 'cause you are beyond horrible," right? Like, "None, none of your friends have told you how bad you are," right? So it's always, like, a mix. Very, very good or very bad every time I went there. But it's, it's a cool location. Like, yeah, it's like a tourist, like a tourist attraction. People... And then we were, like I'm, like, maybe three blocks from T-Mobile and Lumen Park Field, right? All the concerts are there. Like, Metallica came here last year and, like, did three nights. Oh, wow. It's just... Yeah, it's just a good time. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to- There's live, there's, there's live music everywhere here. I wanna find real quick on my phone, where was it? I, I took a picture of it, and I think this is something that you would like. I can't find it, but I'll, I'll try to remember the name of it. 'Cause I'm part of a bourbon whiskey society. Someone had brought a bottle of bourbon that was aged in barrels on a concert stage. And so the whole thing was, it, it was aged with the vibrations of every song ever played on that stage. Wow. And it was actually, it tasted great. It was one of my favorite ones at the event that day. And I want to find the name of that to, to shout that out. But yeah, I thought that was really neat that it was in barrels on a music stage that was k- actively performing different shows and concerts. And you know, I don't know how much effect the, the vibration of music has on the alcohol or not, but still I thought it was just really cool that that was how it was aged compared to- Yeah, that's very, very interesting. Very interesting, yeah. Yeah. And when you talk about I think it's great to see live music performances. One thing that I've kind of been doing lately is trying to find a lot of brand-new musicians out on YouTube who it's their first video or maybe their third video, maybe no views. Trying to, like, really support these, these small independent musicians. Like, I'm, I'm really anti-celebrity culture. I hate all the celebrity BS that we indulge in and, you know, we really need to support all these small-time creators and, you know, be there for them. So I've, I've discovered so many, like, people with... It's so sad. They have amazing voices, amazing lyrics, great instruments, and they're just, you know, in the shad- giant, giant shadows of these celebrities, you know? And of course there's so many new musicians every day that y- there's also a, a flooded and inundated market. So I've been trying to find, like... Yeah, I love listening to some of these mainstream artists. I, I, I have some people that I, are my go-tos and stuff. But finding these new small artists is great. And sometimes it's terrible because they quit, and then you're like, "I've only got one song from you. Like, I needed 10 more." Yeah. Like, where was that album you were talking about? So yeah, do you have like a, a favorite genre or anything? I'm, I'm, I'm big into hip hop, o- like old school rock. Like that is definitely an old, old school hip hop. I was gonna say, hip-hop's changed a lot, so, so clarify. Clarify. Yeah, old school hip hop. Yeah. I've gotten lined into, into K-pop recently, like Blackpink, XG, What? Yeah. Mr. Cavness, you know. Yeah. That's... Is, is your, is your wife Asian? No, no. Okay, okay. That's, that's- No ... that's why I know so much Korean music and Japanese and Chinese music. Yeah. It was from dating. Every woman I've ever dated- Yeah ... was like obsessed with any music that was not in English. So I, I knew like people would, like it, it would surprise people that I knew all the lyrics to all these songs from ITZY and TWICE and, and stuff. Did you- Yeah ... did you watch K-pop Demon Hunters? No. I, I never... So I never knew about that until I watched Snoop Dogg's Christmas special. And I seen them singing the, the, at, at Snoop Dogg's Christmas special. That's the first thing I, I found out about them, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. But they're really good. Ladies and gentlemen listening, I encourage you. I actually have a Bible sermon, a solo sermon episode on my podcast and on my website kapoonuk.com/radiatingfaith, where I broke down one of their songs, Your Idol, which is sung by the SAJAD Boys. There are a bunch of Bible quotes and parallelism there that I broke down. You can find the thumbnail easily 'cause it's a picture of me with the demon stripes, and it's, it's... I, I did some Photoshop editing to make me look like one of the characters from the show a little bit, so that was cool, too. I kinda did it too late. Like everyone was done talking about K-pop Demon Hunters by the time I did that sermon, so I, I missed the, the bandwagon there. But, Yeah ... I hope it was well-received. But yeah- But good music. Good music ... I, I just bring that up 'cause that was like the K-pop phenomenon of the year, you know? Yeah. In fact, I don't wanna bash on her, but my fiancée and I, she said, "Can we be the two main characters from K-pop Demon Hunters for Halloween?" And I said, "Ok-" Oh, she gave me a dirty look from across the room. She, she's listening. I said, "Okay," because my hat has been gotten flat enough that I coulda just already had half the outfit for it when they're in their, when they're doing like the Korean priest demons part. So I had my outfit. I texted her and I was like, "Hey, make sure you go get your outfit today. We are like two or three weeks out from Halloween. This is probably gonna be the number one selling costume of the year to be Rumi or whoever the main character is." She goes, "Okay, I'll go get it today." The day before Halloween, she's like, "Can you take me to the store to get the costume?" Sold out. Sold out. Completely sold out And so I, who didn't even wanna do the K-pop Demon Hunters Halloween, had the costume ready. I went and got the stuff for it, and she was not ready. And she's like, "I don't understand." I was like, "I told you to get it today." So I ended up wearing, We went as Jack Skellington and what's the girl, Sally? Whoever the girl is from The Nightmare Before Christmas. And- ... I had gotten, because of money at the time, it was like $20 cheaper to get the kids' large, and I can fit into some kids' large depending on the material. I stretched and the whole back part ripped open of this costume, so I was just like, I was just Jack Swellington for, for Halloween unintentionally. So yeah. Sh- th- and this is a fitness and aesthetic advice. Buy children's clothes if you wanna look huge, you know. Just wear- ... really tight children's clothes. I, I have some of my T-shirts from boot camp that don't fit anymore, and I'll put them on sometimes to just feel a little bit better about myself. But yeah, so I highly recommend if you ever seen K-pop Demon Hunters, it was good. I will say this, it felt very American. It did not feel Korean to me, but that's my personal take. It's a hot take. I've had some teenage girls yell at me about that. You know, they get very offended if you say that. But it felt, it felt very Americanized. It did not feel very Korean to me, especially when it came to the character designs and, and their personalities and the, the animation. But yeah. Do you have a favorite K-pop song? Oh, man. No shame. There's no judgment here. Well, there, there are wrong answers, though. Yeah. I mean, I guess probably anything by Blackpink, I would think is good. Okay. I gotta think. They're, they're not in my top three, so I, I, I, you know, I can't name any off the top of my head, but I, I, I've heard a couple from them that I like. Yeah. Of course, each one had a solo career last year, like Jennie Rosé, Jisoo, all those people had their solo careers, you know. Oh, see, you know your stuff. I, I would've never guessed this. I would've never guessed this, so. Yeah. That's funny. Each one is... Like Lisa, she's the best dancer, you know. Jisoo's probably the best singer, or maybe Rosé's the best singer, you know. Like, yeah. Yeah. I encourage everyone to catch that. What's the band called? Is it Dreamcatcher? I think that's my favorite. They do, their, their songs are very, like, anime style. They're very, like, anime intro or outro kind of style. So I really got into their stuff, 'cause it was more like action pac- It... 'Cause some, some K-pop songs are just too, I don't know- Too poppy ... like, too girly. Too poppy. Too poppy, yeah. I was gonna say, but, like, Dreamcatcher, like some of their stuff was, like, intense. They talk about like, "My home is being destroyed. I gotta go." One of them is like, "Run, run, run," you know. So it's that kind of stuff. Do you watch anime at all? Are you into animation, anime? No, not really. And then so, the K-pop Demon Hunters, so the one lady, I don't know how to say her name, but it's, it's like R-E, R-E-I, A-M-I, Ami. You know that one? Well, there's, there's Rumi. Her, her. And... Okay, yeah, yeah. Rumi. Have you ever listened to any of her old stuff? No. No, I haven't checked out any of those, like, actresses/singers- Sure ... like, actual content. I didn't, I didn't even know- Her old stuff- ... they had anything before that, to be honest her old stuff is very dark, yeah. Like, one song she talks about murdering her boyfriend. Like, yeah. What? Okay. And she's like, "Hey." She's talking about fans, "Hey, my fans, you know, new fans, I was in a dark period back then, so kinda don't pay attention to it anymore," right? But she, she said some, she said some pretty dark stuff. She was demon hun- she was demon hunting back then, too, right? Yes. Yeah. She was, yeah. You know, it's- She has some very dark stuff ... it's interesting actually, 'cause, like, I used to listen to K-pop when I was working rotation shift work nuclear side because of the high energy. So in the morning it would help me get ready. Although, I did have a tradition that I don't share with many people which was that every Friday morning I would put on I believe it's by The Cure, Friday. You know, Friday I'm In Love. I don't know if you've heard that song. Mm-hmm. Are you familiar? Yeah, I have. Yeah. Yeah, I would play it, like, every Friday because, you know, that would mark the weekend. Relatively, a lot of us had to study nuclear material over the weekend as well, but every Friday morning it was like, "It's Friday, I'm in lo-" Because what happened for me was weekends vanished for a time period. When I was in high school, and then senior year of my high school experience, in the beginning of March or whatever it was, they said, "Hey, there's something going on in the world. We're gonna take a two-week break from school, and then we'll be back for, to finish senior year." We never came back. It turns out it was COVID-19, beginning of the pandemic. So I had no prom, no yearbook, no senior graduation. I had none of that experience. And that's fine, I didn't really care that much. But they decided to, you know, just do away with all that. I never went back to... So my whole, like, m- March, April, May, June, 'cause in New... I was in New Jersey at the time, so we go to, we have school until June, like, the end of June. Like, they say we have off June, July, August. Or my last day of school was, like, June 22nd. I mean, what, what, what do you mean I have off June? I have, like, the last few days off. But, so all that time period I was at home, so there, there was no weekend or weekday. You know, you had... And it wasn't like nowadays where there's a lot of virtual work. At that time, teachers were having to put together brand-new virtual programs. Like, nowadays if you go to school online, they have it all set up. At this time it was like teachers like, "Holy crap, I've gotta take everything I was gonna teach for the rest of the year and make it virtual." So my senior year, like, the end of it was just, like, nonexistent. And then went to the military, and then when I went to training for the military, going to A school and stuff, now it was back to Monday through Friday having class and then having a weekend. So that song became like a, all right, it's Friday. Fridays are a thing again. My nuclear instructor, he used to say, "Every day is Monday except for Friday." That was his saying that he lived by. And, and we used to say that the days are long, but the weeks are short, so. Yeah. Yeah. That became my, my Friday ritual, which I, I don't do it anymore 'cause now I'm an entrepreneur. I work, I work never and 24/7. You know? Exactly, yeah. You'll find me, I was emailing people at 3:00 this morning, in the morning, 'cause I hadn't gone to bed yet. And then other times people would try to get ahold of me at, like, 20:00 and I'm asleep. So it's just random, you know? I think I work more than I did before. And for me, at least, I'm a solopreneur. I don't know about you, Mr. Cavness, if you have any virtual assistant or anything, but for me, it's just I run the whole thing by myself, so it's a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah, a lot of stuff behind the scenes you gotta do, right? Right. Well, I jokingly say when I became a podcaster, I also became a social media guru, a marketer, a email person. Like, you become a secretary, you become a, a CEO, like, all this stuff. And so tell us a little bit about your podcasting journey. Again, just going for how many... how long have you been doing it, how many episodes are you at, and, like, what have you really l- learned along the way about podcasting? I mean, so I started September 2017, did several iterations, went from a 30-minute podcast, then I like doing long-form podcasts. And you learn a lot, you know. It's like you just... You learn a lot from the people you talk to, right? And, and different things, like, like one of my first podcasts I ever did, I had a pen, I, I clicked the pen ev- And, you know, of course it was the pen clicked all the episode, right? Yeah. And I didn't have the heart to tell her, I didn't have the heart to tell the person, "Hey, let's do redo it," right? And then I did not really know how to edit right, so it took me, like, 10 hours to edit a 30-minute podcast because I would pen click, pen clicks outright. And you just learn, like, you know, like, you know, silence isn't a bad thing sometimes, you know. You learn to go with the flow. You just learn, you learn different things, like, you, like, like everyone has a different setup. Like, I know a lot of people now use, like, Riverside or Descript. I re- I record my podcast on a thing called Adobe Audition. I use Ecamm Live- Mm ... and Restream, like Restream It Everywhere. Oh, I know about Ecamm, yeah. Yeah. So I, I use them. Because one thing, another mistake I learned, so I was for a while I was under the impression, like, okay, my, my camera's 4K, right? So I thought the Zoom would also be 4K. But no, Zoom goes to 1080, right? So all this time I thought I was doing v- v- podcast video in 4K, it was only 1080, right? I'm like, what the hell? Like, you know. And so then I found about Ecamm Live that it actually stream with 4K, right? And a lot of things they don't tell you, like, like, on the, like, on, on... So I have, like, sound switcher, you have to put the gain and all that kind of stuff on there. You gotta play around with it, you know? Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then one problem I have, so I do in-person podcasts, so mic- microphone have, like, I have it right up here. A lot of time, my guests, we would start right here, and they'll, like, lean back, right? And then you can't hear them, right? So I have to tell them, "Hey, scoot up, you know." Yeah, just different things like that. It's, it's a, it's a lot of things to learn, right? You know, different camera angles, different lighting angles, you know. Like switching cameras, you know, just it's, it's a lot sometimes, right? But it's a lot of fun. For sure, and I've, you know, gone through a lot of those tech difficulties myself. When I first started, it was audio only. It was on Audacity. You know, this was before Descript, so editing it, it was just looking at a sound wave. So you had to replay it, replay it, rewind. Yeah. I'm sure you've dealt with the same, right? Yeah. Now it's easy with Descript. Shout out Descript. Well, not shout out. They charged me $288 the other day and I didn't know about it, so that kind of hit, blindsided me. These- Yeah ... these annual subscriptions, they attack me out of nowhere. It was a bad time for me. But, And, and, and they never tell you, and they never tell you, right. Man, they have the courtesy, "Hey Jason, just to remind you, $356-" Right ... "come out next week," you know? Some of them do and some of them don't. And if they send me an email, it must have gone to spam because out of nowhere I woke up and I, I, I went to buy something on my credit card and it was, like, denied. I was like, "What are you talking about? I got money on that card." And I saw three like almost a $300 charge from Descript. I was like, "You gotta be kidding me." That was, this was not a good time of year for this. And I, I, I, I ultimately bit the bullet with that one because it is so useful. You know, for those of y'all who don't know how it works, basically instead of editing a sound wave, it generates a whole transcript, and wherever you make the edits in the transcript based off the text its software does it in the video or the audio as well. So now you can actually look for the words. You can look for the pen clicks. You know, like it's... Now it'd be easy to do that kind of stuff, and they even have some, like, studio sound software. So they... To be honest, I probably use, like, 1/10th of what they actually have. Like, same with Opus Clips. Like, they, these platforms have so many different features that I don't even use, and, you know- Yeah it's kind of, like, at the point where I have to really restructure everything because some of the softwares that I pay for now do all the same functions. Like, originally it was, like, Opus Clip was the only one doing, making the clips, and then Descript was the only one doing transcript. And this is a... Now I've, there's softwares that do transcript. They do the Opus clips. They do the, the clips. So a lot of things have combined, and so I might downsize on all the having, like, 10 different applications to just getting one mega application. And, and that's kind of t- what we talked about earlier with, like, that's one benefit of the advancement of technology and the spread of knowledge is, like, now all these platforms, like, yes, they're becoming more universal, therefore there is less market for all these other services to be bought. But at the same time, now everything's in one convenient place, and technically these places can charge a lot more because of all these different services they're offering. So I think that's one thing that we've seen change rapidly. You talked about technology doubling. I think about, like, Opus Clips has probably gone over 100 different updates since I first got it, you know? And a lot of applications that I've had have gone from just website only to mobile app to now you can do this and that. And it's annoying sometimes. Like, the other day I got on Zoom and they had changed where the recording button was, and Instagram changes- Where, like it used to be the share button and the story button there have swapped, and the message button has swapped with the reels and your for you page. So it is a little annoying to keep up with all this stuff sometimes. But you talked about an in-person only podcast. A very brave and bold move in the opinion of many because a lot of us know that it's not easy to get guests in person. I mean, if you have a studio it's easier, and if you live in a big city it's easier. But getting people to come in person to kind of take more time out of their day and to s- Like, you're asking them to come to your studio and spend three to five hours, right? Obviously you're promoting them and their work, so there's a benefit to them. But I mean, how have you found managing an in-person podcast to be? Especially when so many people are just hopping on Zoom or Riverside. It's actually been pretty easy, right? Like, I have like a backlog of 1,000 people in Seattle want to come, come on the podcast. Actually did 18 podcasts in person in Vietnam. I have 1,000 people there who wanna come on the podcast. It's, it's been, it's been pretty easy, to be honest with you, right? I mean, 'cause I, I have a good reputation. Everyone says that I have a great time on the podcast, ask good questions. I, I promote the hell out of the podcast, you know. It's... And like, I do get like five or 10 emails a day from people saying, "Hey Jason I saw your podcast with so-and-so. Can you do one with Mary Jane, you know, from Atlanta?" Well, no, because, you know, I only do in-person podcasts, right? So now people actually fly in from different places to be on the podcast, which still to me is like kind of batshit crazy, right? But it's, it hasn't been hard, right? Now, now trust me, if I were just like starting out today doing in-person podcasts, like no one knows who you are, no one's gonna do it, right? So you have to build up a reputation. Like, I have a decent amount of followers on LinkedIn, social media, right? Like, obviously I'm not Joe Rogan or anything like that, but if you Google me, all these podcast clips up, all this stuff comes up. So you can easily like- I did that right before we got on here, so he's telling the truth. You can... Yeah, so you can easily like Google me and you kind of look at the clip, okay, this is kind... What's, what's the podcast gonna be like, right? It's no, it's no like kind of g- like gotcha or whatever. It's always like I try my best to put the guests in the best light I can, you know? Right. So it's not the maintenance of an in-person podcast that is the difficulty, it's the initial launch of it that is vital. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Of course having a good reputation helps out, you know. Like... And like I said, I have people wanting to be on the podcast all the time, which helps out too. Another good thing, like every time there's a, a guest, they always after, they feel, "Oh hey, reach out to this person, this person," right? "This would be a great podcast guest," right? And it's, it's, it's a, it's a lot of fun, like I said, right? Yeah. Where do you see the future going as you continue? 'Cause I know you're speaking at a lot of events coming up here. You travel a lot. You're podcasting a lot. What, what is the goal? Just do you continue to build a following? Do you plan on restructuring anything in the future? No, I think I'm, I'm at a pretty good place right now. So, Well, one thing, so if I said people like, like one thing I waited too long to get, to get it monetized, right? 'Cause even though I saw on the, all the podcast stats, like top 2%, top 2-5% podcast, like consists like the top 80 of tech podcasts, if you look at the number itself, like, man, there's no way I can be top 2%, right, these numbers, right? Well, actually, I am, right? And another, another, like criticism about podcast stats, like it doesn't count what you get on LinkedIn or YouTube videos, right, you know? So when I do my stats, I combine everything, right? Like my LinkedIn newsletter with the, everything that's connected to the podcast used for my stats, right? But I definitely waited too long to try to monetize it, right? So I would say if you have a decent following, no matter what it is, like try to monetize if you can. So like I've had like some different tech companies do ads on here. Just different things like that, you know. And plus, like I do like an event once a year. Like I'm doing an event on June 8th for Seattle Deep Tech Week. It's gonna be like 10 tech, deep tech demos, like robotics, AI, quantum stuff, doing demos. So the podcast app for that. I do a lot of live streaming, you know. It's, yeah. But everything comes from the podcast, and everything like branches out from there, you know? Right, like we talked about speaking on stage. I got to see you speak a little bit at Military Creator Con, and you've got a couple different summits and conferences coming up here. You mentioned being an introvert but liking talking in front of people and also being a podcaster. Yeah. So how... And I mean, being an officer in the, in the military, you don't really get away with not talking in front of people or talking to people. Oh, yeah. So how- Yeah ... do you feel yourself becoming less introverted, or have you just found kind of like your social battery level self-awareness? Like what, what has the journey been with that? It's the same level, probably more. Like, so example, like every time I do a podcast, even when I talk at Military Creator Con, right? So Military Creator Con is a perfect example, right? Every time I talk or whatever, like probably 10 minutes beforehand in my mind, like, "Jason, you can't do this," right? "Jason, don't do this," right? My mind, I think of reasons and like, "Okay, Jason, if you just don't fill up, no one's gonna say anything," right? Or, or if I do the podcast man, please don't come, please don't come, right? So that still messes with me, right? But you have, you have to overcome it, right? And people will say, "Well, Jason, you're not an in- introvert. You have a podcast." Like, well, no, because a podcast, you, I can control everything, right? I control the questions, I control the guests, you know. Like one thing, like I love doing events, right? But I hate going to them, right? Like networking's not my thing, right? Like if I go to a networking event, I might talk to a couple people. Yeah, I'm, I'm... Yeah. It's, it's sometime my introverts d- it, it definitely takes over sometimes, right? Like it's not a good thing, right? I can, I can definitely socially, be socially awkward sometimes. No, I, I totally get that. I, I remember seeing you at the casino night as like, that, that was like probably a introvert's nightmare. It was, it w- it was loud. I mean, people were- Yeah ... screaming, playing, stuff. Yeah. And if you don't know how to play any of those games, talk about feeling, you know, out of place- Yeah for sure. Or if you don't gamble. That's the main reason I left, yeah. Yeah. Or then I'll, I'll do, do stuff like for the cigar night, Thursday night, I decided to do a TikTok live, right? Just to, you know, make myself more comfortable writing I wanted to be on that, and then someone interrupted me as soon as you put the camera on me. Yeah. So we- I never got to talk to you on that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I saw that was something neat. Do you do a lot of TikTok Lives outside of your podcast? Not really. I, I do sometimes. It just depends, you know. Yeah. Have, how have you found... So have you found, like, for your particular for lack of better words, niche or the people that you like to talk to the most, is there a f- a platform that performs better? Is LinkedIn your number one source? Is it Instagram? Is it TikTok? Pro- probably LinkedIn and TikTok, yeah. I don't really get much, much on like, X or like a Facebook. I get, I get a good amount on the YouTube. I'm a... big three for me is LinkedIn, TikTok, and YouTube probably. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've never got... Well, I tried getting involved with TikTok, and like, I don't know, my content wasn't posting or something, so I was like, "Forget it. I don't need it." I know it reaches a lot more people. It's one of the biggest platforms. But for me, like, it was what it was what it was, you know. I'm not gonna try too hard. Maybe one day I'll, I'll try again. But there's a, there's a lot of apps launching, and I've even gotten to get a sneak peek at some... There was an interesting app that they, someone was trying to launch that was basically TikTok, but audio only. So it was gonna be all audio clips and podcasts and things like this. I, I think, I think you're talking about Club- are you talking about Clubhouse? No, so that's a, a, a different platform. I know about Clubhouse as well. That's... Well, I ca- I call it a bit of an older or a less known one. I, you know, I've never been involved with it. But there's a lot of people who asked if I had Clubhouse, and I didn't. Yeah. Yeah, and there, there's a lot of different organizations. I know I haven't spent much time on, on LinkedIn. It's... My, my thing is like I post on all these platforms, but I haven't taken the time to really like master them because I'm... And, and ultimately I post my content. If it does well, it does well. But, you know, there's a lot of research you can do on how to best you know, how to best optimize whatever you're launching on whatever platform, and the algorithm is always changing and this and that. It's like, I just don't have time to investigate every single platform every single time. When's the best time and date to launch this thing? What's the best hashtag and tags and stuff? Like, I do what I do to the best of my abilities and, and that's it. Like I said. Now, if I end up getting virtual assistants or real-life employees, then by all means, if they wanna take that time as long as they're not charging me extra, to res- research that stuff, then, then go ahead. But for me, I, I just put out the content, and I believe, and I'm sure you're along the same mindset, it's gonna reach who it reaches. You know? It's gonna reach the right people at the right time. You know, people who are interested are gonna find it and that's that. Yeah, I do the same thing. And thing with like with a podcast, like, like it, it's kind of hard to monetize it 'cause like, like you really can't tell like, this water company, you can't tell the water company, "Hey, if you do a podcast ad, in two months you got $10,000 increased revenue," right? What usually happens is, like, I'll get a email once a day from, once a week from someone, "Hey Jason, remember the podcast we did a year ago?" Someone reach out to me and we close the deal right. So podcasts are more like evergreen, long tail- Yeah ... patterns for people, you know? Well, they're, they're... and I, I like the way you kinda put it. They're, they're unpredictable at the end of the day, and I'll, I'll give you an example. Months ago I recorded with Coach Rob Wheeler, shout out Battle Fitted. Actually, he, he shut down Battle Fitted, so now he runs Battle Harder. He did a little bit of rebranding. At the time he was running Battle Fitted for, you know, military clothing, coaching, blah, blah, blah. He and I did a episode, like, whatever, eight or 12 months ago, and it got its initial... A- and every episode has, like, its initial launch period where it's getting listened to every day and people are checking it out, and then at some point it fades off. And then, what was it? Like, a few days ago out of nowhere dozens of people were listening to the episode every day for three days, and then it died again. And it was like, what caused this spike? And sometimes it's holiday-related. I've been able to track some holiday themes. Like, there was a episode that was months old, no one was listening to it. Come around Easter everyone started downloading it, and it was called Escaping a Religious Cult. So it's like people were just in the Easter mood or it was trending because of that stuff. Or, like, I had a episode, Suicide Prevention for Gen Z, every single day for six months, download, download, download, then died. And then came back for a set amount of time, and died. So I'm sure you've seen, I don't know how much you check your stats out, but there's just some weird trends sometimes. Like, sometimes you can believe, like, maybe it's the holiday, maybe it's the news, and then sometimes it's just, like, I don't know, someone discovered it and they sent it to everyone they knew, and everyone they knew happened to like it and sent it to someone they knew. Like, sometimes you can't tell, like, what's going- And sometimes it's in other countries, so I have no idea what's going on with that. You know, like, I get, I'm sure you get all the time new cities and new countries listening to your podcast, and you're like, "I never even heard of this country." I went through one time all the countries that my podcast has been listened to, and there was, like, at least 10 of them I had never heard of in my entire life. Yeah. And then you, then you have a spike. Is that really people or is that, like, just bots that are going to see your podcast, right? I mean, it still counts as a view, so I guess it doesn't matter. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's hard to tell the stats, I know, especially, like, on YouTube, 'cause people always ask me, "Mr. Whiskey, who's your audience? Who's listening to your show?" I said, "I have no idea who's listening to it." Yeah, you can't answer, can't answer that question yet. I said, "I, I know, I can tell you that most people listen to it on a phone or a computer, sometimes a TV. I can tell you most people listen to it on Apple Podcasts and through Apple devices, but there are some people who are listening it, l- listening to it on a d- on a app I never even heard of in my life." They're like, "Is it mostly men or women?" I don't know. I don't get gender statistics from any platform except for YouTube. They say, "Okay. Well, is it mostly men or women on YouTube?" I said, "Well, guess what?" It doesn't just do the podcast episodes. Every social media clip that I launch from the podcast episodes and that guests have collaborated with me on are included in those statistics. Well, an episode might get, let's say it gets 20 views, but a clip from it might get, you know, 20,000 views. So it's completely skewing the data, which I, I say don't, don't worry about it unless you're really trying to, like, hone in on a specific niche for whatever reason. If you're a broad show like M- Mr. Caviness, you and I are both... Anyone could listen to our show and benefit from it, you know? It's not very specifically for just medical dental students who also happen to be bus drivers, to give a very specific example, right? Like, we have anyone can listen to it and take something away. So I say if you're, if you're serving an audience like that, don't, don't worry about it, but. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. It, yeah, it's, it's the tracking is so off scale, out there, right? So people are cl- Hey, can you tell me, like, your audience, and they wanna know, like, how many tech people, how many whatever the case. Like, no, I can't do that, right? Yeah, like I said, that's probably my biggest criticism of the podcast industry. Like, there has to be some kind of way to, like, get more reliable stats, you know? And it's sad because I, I think about, like, Apple Podcasts, for example. It's like, we can't tell you age or, or gender. I'm like, why not? I know you have that information, and it's like, if I downloaded Apple Podcasts and it said, "Please put in your age and gender," I wouldn't second-guess it. Almost every application asks for that. Like, you ask for my birthday. I'm more hesitant to give my birthday than my gender, to be honest with you. But it's like, why can't you give me that information? It's like, so you're gonna tell me that they were listening on their phone in their mom's basement in, like, you know, XYZ city, and you're gonna tell me what episode they listened to, but you're not gonna tell me if it's a man or a woman? Like, you already, like, basically told me what city they live in, so it's ju- it's just so strange. You know, and it's like people ask, "How many people listen to your podcast?" I'm like, "I have no idea." Some days it's one person, and some day it's XYZ amount. Like, it's different every single day, so, you know. And if... A- and it's always at least one person, 'cause I download my own episodes, but. Right, right. There's always at least one person. Like, I've g- I've got two phones- Yep ... so I, I try to get two downloads a day. That's funny. Yeah. So what, what do you say I know you mentioned Vietnam a few times, and even doing in... You were doing in-person podcast episodes in Vietnam? Yes. Yes. So what was that like? What is it like going to Vietnam and podcasting, and, and why are they so involved? And y- you're correlated to Vietnam through the tech space, correct? Sort of, kind of. So how I got involved with Vietnam, so a good friend of mine, Kevin, he's from Laos. He's an Army veteran also. His wife Mina was actually born in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, or Saigon. Mm. And w- her, her and her family moved to the States when she was 13. And so January 2023, Kevin says, "Hey, Jas, you know, Mina's in college-" And her college is actually going to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam for 10 days September. Can you come with me, right? And in my mind, I'm thinking communist Vietnam, like communism, Soviet Union, 1950s, right? Like, dude, I'm not, no, gonna go no freaking communist country, right? Like, why, why don't we go somewhere like everything's like, you know, less communist. Like you have to get permission- Right to do anything. No, Jason, not like that, man. Whatever, dude. I'm not gonna do it, right? He asked me a couple more times, and then like maybe July I was like, "Man, Jason, you big dummy. When do you have a chance to go to Kendrick base or tour guide, right?" And so I decided to go. But me, me, me, I got on Linked... I, I, I started connecting with all these tech people, all these VCs, all these different people, right? And so I was there for 10 days, had a great time, but each day I had like two or three meetings, right? So I met with this one guy, Rafael Masters he's building a, a, his company like does like, What's the word for fake arms? Prosthetics. Yeah, that word there. He's making that, but there's like, to also like use, do data and stuff with the, with the, with the body limbs. Met one guy, he has a half billion dollar company out of France and, and Vietnam. So I met all these cool people, right? And also met, that's where I met Tech Bank and met Earth VC. And then just had a great time, made a lot of connections. So fast-forward to June 2024, Kevin says, "Hey, Jason," you know me, me and I got married young and we were kind of poor. They asked if they could record us wedding. I'm doing well now. We're gonna get remarried in Vietnam February 6, 2025. Can you be in the wedding?" Like, yeah. Hell, I'll be in the wedding. I said I'll probably get like last week, January. He said, "Okay, cool." July came, said, "Jason, do me a favor," 'cause Kevin, he's the one who helps me with all my podcasts set up, right? And he said, "Hey, Jason, how many people do you know in Vietnam?" Like, man, like I knew like a couple hundred. Do you think Earth VC will let you use their space and do a podcast there? I can ask, right? And then Earth VC said yes, and so I took all my podcast equipment to, to Vietnam and did like 18 podcasts there. I mean, just... This one person I interviewed was I, I can't remember her name, but she had a, a interior design company. Her, her company did interior design of all the five-star hotels in Ho Chi Minh City. Just met so many cool people there, and everyone's like, "Yeah, I'll be in a podcast," 'cause there's not, there's not many podcasts in Vietnam, you know, for whatever reason, right? Right. And so people were like pretty much like, "Hey, can I do the podcast with you," right? One guy I talked to, Zach Crush, he's a, he was a, he was a army officer. He was employee number, like 95 at Snapchat. So now what he does in Vietnam, he's basically like the Joe Rogan and Dana White of, of UFC in Vietnam, right? So he came on the podcast. That was pretty cool. And- Did you say that 95? Yeah, he's like, I think he's employee number 95 at Snapchat, yeah. Wow. So kind of up there. And just, and, and t- in Vietnam it's so, it's so entrepreneurial, so tech advanced, like so many t- cool things like, like it's real big in crypto, AI. But I mean, yeah, just so much stuff going on there, right? That is what I- That is really shocking to me because I guess kind of like you talk about- what we think about other countries before we actually go there. I think a lot of people picture just a jungle with Vietnam. Because a lot of people, when they think of Vietnam, they think of the Vietnam War, they think of, you know, the humping the boonies and, and jungleness. Yeah. And I, you know, I met someone who was trying to move to Vietnam because she was like, "Hey, I can get a penthouse for, like, 3 or $500 a month." You know? The, because- That, that's, that's crazy ... like every American I know who's going there is going there for prices. Yeah, that's true ... but this is the first time I've heard about the tech industry there. So- Oh, it's, it's, it's so advanced there, man ... definitely interested in that. It's, it's so advanced. The tech stuff they're doing there, it's, yeah, it's... There a lot of software development firms. Like, the, the company I work for, Tech Bank, I'm helping them break in the US market, but they have, like, they have 150 developers, they have products all over Africa, all over Europe, all over the Middle East, all over Asia. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of tech stuff going on there. Yeah. You know, I think that's so interesting because, again, I always kinda pictured a jungle. Especially, I've interviewed a lot of Vietnam veterans on my podcast, so you know, I have a very, I guess, outdated mental image, you know, 'cause they were... The parts of Vietnam that they went to are probably not the parts that, that you went to. But, you know, I... It's interesting, I've met a couple Vietnam veterans who, they went back there after the war later on to, half of them got married to Vietnamese women, which is, you know, interesting. And then the other half, they just wanted to see what the country ended up like after that whole conflict. And so- Yeah ... it's interesting to hear their perspectives as people who were there in warfare in the jungle, and now they go there to the cities and, and see how it is. And a lot of them have had a really positive experience and really recommend it to other people. So I, it's on my list of places to go as well. I know, like, I've been to Japan, I'm going back to Japan, but I wanna hit up Malaysia and Vietnam because I've met people through podcasting who live there. And, you know, meeting up with guests in real life is one of my, you know, greatest joys in life. So to be able to go to another country and do that as well, like you mentioned, podcasting in Vietnam, like, would've never had foreseen that in my future. I never foresaw myself podcasting, let alone in other countries, right? You know, isn't that just like a mind-blowing thing to think about sometimes. One thing that's still crazy to me is the fact, like, how much the Vietnamese people love Americans, right? That was one thing I was not expecting. Like, they love Americans for whatever reason, right? Which is kind of crazy to me. But I have a funny story for you, right? Okay, yeah, yeah. So I have a lot of friends there. One of my friend's name is Will James. He's actually from Canada, but he's been like 10 years. He does, like, he has, like, marketing company there, right? And so we hung out for a while, and of course he has a little Vietnamese girlfriend, and said, "Hey, Jason, you know, you've been to Ho Chi Minh City. You wanna see, like, the real Vietnam, right? I'm g- we're, we're going to my girlfriend's parents' house for the weekend for a week, right? You wanna come along?" I say, "I'll go, I'll go along." And he was like, "Just to let you know, like, it's, it's, like, plenty of food, plenty to drink," but he said, "like, a small house, small farm," right? And so I get there, the house is like a mansion, and the small farm is, like, the biggest rubber tree farm in, in all of Vietnam, right? Which is kinda funny. But we get there, we're having dinner that night- And this, this elderly gentleman, like, he, like, he, he's, he's in the Vietnam War, right, on their side of course, and he told me something. It was so funny when he said, say, he said, "Are you American?" I said, "Yes yes, yes, I'm American." "You know what? Last time I saw America was through the, through the the sight of my weapon." "Well, I'm glad you don't have a weapon right now, sir." Right. Wow. Yeah. Great way to welcome over a houseguest. But that, that's so interesting seeing the change, you know, because I find it very different from... Now, again, I, well, I will, you know, I'm speaking from personal experience, so it's not obviously the truth of the whole country, but there was a lot of anti-Americaness when I was in Japan. There was a lot of people who hated... There actually, there was protests going on in the streets peaceful protests especially compared to America, but- Yeah protests, very loud, megaphones and cars and flags and marching against immigration, saying Japanese culture is, is being killed by the Americans who are moving here. Not just Americans, but Europeans and other people as well. But, you know, there was plenty of parts in Japan where I went and people would just give me, like, the death glare because I was American, and, you know. And, and to top it off, I had an Asian woman with me, so then they double hate me because it's like, "Oh, now you're stealing our women and our culture. Like, pick one or the other." And I said, "Well, I only came for the culture because of the women," you know? Yeah. Like, but it's, it's, it's a shame. So it's interesting hear about Vietnam because I would have expected that to be a very anti-American place because- That's, that's what I thought too, yeah. It's not ... what I've heard, and maybe you can confirm, I don't know if you came across this, was someone told me that in Vietnam they call it the American War. They don't call it the Vietnam War. No, they do. It's called American War. Like, if you go to the, the war museum, it's, it's like, it's, it's all from their side, and then we're on both sides, just horrible stuff to each other. But yeah, it, it has all the atrocities we did to them, like Agent Orange, all, all the bad stuff we did. But yeah, it's called the American War from their side, yeah. Yeah. And I know I shouldn't find that funny, but I, I find it funny in a sense that, like, that's really how history and news is. Like, I, I was actually writing today for my college class, like, I go to Planet Fitness, not a sponsor, but a pretty good place, and whenever I do the treadmill or the elliptical, StairMaster, whatever, they've got all the TVs. And they have Fox News and CNN News on the channels, on the TVs right next to each other. So I walk with my eye, you know, one eye on each screen, and they'll literally be telling the same story but completely opposite. Yeah. And I'm like, how can I... I'm walking on a treadmill forward looking at these two same stories, and they're completely different. And so of course, you know when they say a coin has two sides and the truth is the one down the middle or whatever they say? They're like, I'm always curious, like, so what, what actually happened? 'Cause you're saying this and they're saying that, so I gotta find some podcaster, 'cause podcast is one of the growing neutral news media formats. So, yeah. But it's just so interesting. And when someone told me very recently that it was called the American War, and I was like, oh- Yeah That's really funny in the sense that, like, we call it the Vietnam War and blame them- It was funny too that- ... and they call it the American War and blame us. Yeah. What's funny, at the, at the museum they have, they have a showcase of all the American equipment we left over there. Wow. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. All the tanks, all the different equipment, yeah. That's so weird to just go to another country and see, like, your stuff on display you know? It's like, that's so strange. I, yeah, I mean, I won't self-invite, Mr. Cavness, but if you ever need another person to go with you to Vietnam, I'd definitely- ... be able to check it out, you know? Maybe I'll stop by there when I'm in Japan. It's probably cheaper to fly from Japan to Vietnam than from America to Vietnam, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah. I definitely wanna check it out. It's, it's actually interesting. People ask me, "Mr. Whiskey, why do you wanna go to Malaysia?" I said, "Because there is a muscular woman over there who was on my podcast, and her and I have a arm wrestle challenge that I must fulfill one day." So I never thought I'd say I'm going to Malaysia to arm wrestle a muscular woman who, a woman who was a, like, a engineer and quit her job to just become, like, a fitness trainer, and it's like, huh. It's interesting. Sometimes people ask me, like, "What do you do for a living?" And like, as a podcaster, I can give them so many answers. Like, I could say, "Oh, well, I, I go to other countries to arm wrestle people," and it's like, it's part of my podcasting journey, you know? It's not what I do on the daily. But other times people are like... Like, I joked on a podcast once. They were like, "You could describe some of the things you do as a podcast," and they would think it's a different job. So I was like, "Yeah, people come to me and share about their sobriety and relapse and, and all these struggles." They're like, "Oh, you're a addiction recovery therapist." And it's like, "Well, I'm a podcaster." And it's like, people share their breakup stories and ask me for relationship advice or share relationship advice. They're like, "Oh, so you're, you're a couples counselor." It's like, "No, I'm a podcaster." It's like, we fall under all these branches, and you've mentioned it multiple times throughout the episode, and I agree with it 100%, Mr. Cavness. This is one of the biggest benefits of being a podcast host. I have learned so much from people all across the world, people that you and I got to interview. Not just have a conversation or listen to their content, but we got to ask the questions. We got to guide the question. We got to ask the questions, and I don't know if this has been your experience, but for me, some of these people charge thousands of dollars to ask them questions, and you and I get to do it for free. You know, we're promoting them and giving them time, and ask them some questions that people wish they could ask them. So that's definitely been a cool experience that I'm sure you've gotten to partake in as well. Yeah, def- I've definitely taken advantage of that without a doubt, you know? A lot, like, a lot of time I have guests on just 'cause, like, they have something I wanna learn from, right? Or I'm due similar time, I, I wanna bring them on, like, pick their br- hate the term pick your brain, but pick their brains, right, you know? It's like a, almost like a free two-hour consulting session with each guest. Right, right. I've been able to heal most of my childhood trauma for free. N- normally that costs $1,000 a session. You know, they, they say, "Hey, don't, don't go to therapy. Become a podcast host instead." That's my advice, that's my takeaway, but don't, don't, don't blame me if anything bad happens. But- ... what would you say, Mr. Cavness, I mean, obviously you've interviewed a lot of people for a very long time, and we're not gonna play favorites, but has there been any interviews or people that kind of, like, were, I don't wanna say better, but maybe stuck with you more or hit you more personally, whether that was something deep that changed on the inside, or something that was really funny, or some advice that kinda left you shocked, like? Well, I can tell you my craziest one. So I interviewed this guy one time, and we just started talking, and he, he starts talking about how, like, he, ever since a young age he's seen spirits everywhere, right? Oh, tell me more. Oh, he said, "Well, matter of fact, there's spirits in the room with us right now." I said, "So there's spirits in the room right now, you can see?" "Oh, yeah, there, there's spirits all over me. All over everywhere. I see spirits all the time," right? And I, and I asked, like, "So is this 'cause, like, from psychedelics, LSD, mushroom?" "No, no, I've never taken any drugs. I've just, since I was a little kid always been, and spirits around me, like different angels, demons." So I'm like, "Okay." So that, that was very interesting, right? I'm like, "Okay, so to confirm, they're in here right now?" "Yes. I know you can't see them, Jason, but trust me, they're, they're talking right now," and all this kind of stuff, right? So that was, like, very, yeah, yeah. My question would've been- Awesome ... are, are they good intended or are they malicious spirits? Like, you gotta let me know. That's, that's the first question out of my mouth, like, are they good or bad? Are they on our side? I know, right. No, I didn't ask that. I was just, like, kinda taken aback and I just, you know, like, if some people said, "Jason," I would've stopped the interview right there. Like, no, you're halfway through, just gotta keep on going, right? Yeah, it's like- But, yeah ... are they podcasting? But yeah, no, that, that's, that's the... And I, I know I've interviewed with some people or I've talked to some podcasters who the person they were interviewing had attempted suicide that morning and failed. Failed in the sense that not that it was a failure, but that the gun misfired or that they g- got on the podcast instead. So it, it's kind of, it's kind of strange sometimes the places people are podcasting to you from in, in that mental state or emotional state, or, like, y- you never know what they were just doing or what they're gonna do afterward. Not to make it really cryptic or ominous, but, like, sometimes that's the case, is, like, wow, that was their experience this morning. And maybe for me it was I just rolled out of bed and put on a hat and got behind a microphone. Like, you never know, like, how different the two worlds are, you know? And it's been neat, actually, 'cause I've gotten to, and I'm sure... H- have you guested on a, on a couple different shows? Yeah. So have you, have you been on shows in other countries? I, I don't know. I, I think I have. I can't remember. I think I've been on a couple in Canada, I think. I just bring that up to say it's been neat 'cause I've gotten to podcast with people and it's like- 1:00 AM my time and it's like 5:00 PM their time and it's like, you know, they're like, "I'm going to bed after this." And I, and I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm gonna wake up and start my day." Yeah. So it's, it's pretty neat that universal connection sometimes, so yeah. And then well Mr. Cadmus, I'll leave it to you. You're, you're the long form expert, so is, is there anything that you did wanna discuss you know, like mandatory on the podcast that you really want to share with whoever's listening, whether it was life advice or comedy or just something about yourself that you want to promote or anything like that? I think the biggest thing is like a lot of us have self-limiting behavior, right? Like a lot of us are like, "Hey, I wanna ask Mary to do something," but I know Mary's gonna say no, right? Well, give Mary the opportunity to tell you no, right? Don't assume someone says no. Like example, I think I said this in my talk, but like I went to a tech conference maybe two months ago, right? And this lady, she has a health tech startup. They just raised like $100 million, a lot of money, right? She's, she's talking or whatever, giving a great speech. My friend says, "Jason, man, you should ask her to be on the podcast." Like dude, like that's a Joe Rogan level guest, right? This... I'm, you know, I'm not gonna waste my time or her time even asking her, right? And so she finished talking. We're there networking and she comes to me and says, "Hey, are, are you Jason?" I say, "Yeah." "I love your podcast. How do I be a guest," right? And course I, you know, in my mind I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me," right? Like of course you kinda, kinda play it off. "Oh yeah, sure. We'll work something out," right? But I would've never asked her to be on the podcast, right? So self-limiting behavior, you know. So we have to, we have to stop that, right? And also like whatever you wanna do, just get started, right? I mean, whether it's like learn how to play guitar or do a podcast- Right ... scuba dive. Like it's almost like the, what's the saying? The best time to be able to plant a tree is 10 years ago today. Like you have to do it today, right? Yeah, the best time to plant an oak tree was 50 years ago. The second-best time is today, you know? And a lot of us kind of had the idea of like it's too late to start or a lot of people like are so focused on perfecting the launch that they never launch, and that's for podcasting, that's for whatever it is like you mentioned. Yeah. I think a lot of us do stop ourselves. And I think your advice is great for not just business but for relationships especially. You know, there's been a lot of relationship arguments I've been a part of where the person was like, "I knew you would say this," or, "I assumed you would say that." And I was like, "But because you thought I was gonna say that, therefore you didn't bring up this topic or take this action, and then ABC happened to our relationship." Like even if you, even if it's like a repeat behavior, like maybe s- like it could be like 9 out of 10 times I've said no to this exact conversation. But there's a 10th time where I might say, "Hey, I've thought about it," or because of extenuating circumstances like- I don't, I don't expect everything to always be a s- a firm pattern in life, especially when it comes to people and relationships. Like, obviously there are certain things we never compromise on, but you know, I, I say always try, like you mentioned, I think so many of us actually damage our relationships by assuming our partner's behavior, by assuming their thoughts or what they're gonna say. Like you said, worst case scenario, if you do ask them and they say the response, you got, okay, so you were right, but you're not always gonna be right because you just don't know. You just don't know what they are. And I think, like you mentioned, I thought about never think that any guest is too good for your show, you know, because at the end of the day, you're giving them a platform and an opportunity, and it's up to them to take advantage of it. And if it's aligned with them, it doesn't really matter the size. So I'll give you an example. Kimberly Spencer, she's one of the top podcasters. I think she's one of the only six or seven-figure women in the world,  you know, I met her when I was first starting my podcast. Like, it was brand new, nothing to brag about at all, and she was more than happy to be a guest on it. And I kept thinking to myself like, "This is a top 1% or whatever podcaster. She makes millions of dollars," blah, blah, blah. Like, who am I to interview her at the time? You know, I had just started. But things always work out a certain way. So she had a six-year-old son at the time who wanted to start a podcast interviewing astronauts, like only astronauts, so very niche focused. And after I interviewed her, I went to a voice acting conference in Atlanta where I met the woman in charge of training the astronauts for NASA. And I only knew Ms. Spencer because she had gone on my podcast, which was below her in some people's opinion, you know, and I connected those two, so.  You never know who knows who or where a podcast is going to go, because you could be on a podcast that is brand new and it could take off overnight and reach thousands of people. So I say never, like, judge the platform by, by what it is, because it's really about how it performs and you, and you never know how it's gonna perform, you know? And guest ar- guest names aren't everything. You know, I've had some high ranking quote guests who their episodes were outperformed by regular, I don't wanna say street people, but you know, just people who were living their lives, d- doing their own thing, came on and shared about it. So I think we sometimes get too focused on celebrityism or celebritydom, you know, like this person was this or that. You know, it's only as good as the episode is and how you leverage it, you know? So I've realized, like I have... and Mr. Caviness, I'm sure you get it. It's about, they say on average, every podcast host has about 40 people reaching out to them to be on their show a day. I think that's just an average, so it's a lot higher, but I think most people have one to five guests a day reaching out to them. You talk about a backlog of 1,000 people. I get emails every single day now, and it's like I don't even have time to respond to all of them sometimes. It's like Some of them are really big name people, and it's like I, I... You know? But to me it's like if they're not aligned with the show, it doesn't even matter. For me, alignment is more important than title.  Yeah. Another thing about like, like starting before you're ready, a lot of people, like I said, they wanna like start when they're perfect. But like if you don't start, you don't- you have to put the reps in. Only by doing reps and doing repetitions and hacking at it are you gonna get better, right? You're not gonna get better by doing nothing, right? And by doing reps, you're gonna... You of course you're gonna fail, you're gonna look bad, but like that's the only way you can get better, right? 100%, in fact- The only way for you to get started ... they say it takes about 20-ish episodes for you to really find your cadence or your pacing. Like, yeah, I mean, you experienced that. You talk about, hey, I used to be this kind of podcast doing this timeframe, and I found out, you know, that wasn't for me. And sometimes, like, I think you spend so much time trying to prepare to launch, and then you launch a podcast that you don't- you're not even happy with, and you end up changing anyway. So I say just... chris Krimitsos wrote a book, I believe, called Start Ugly, and it's for podcasters. You know, like Start Ugly. Just start. Like, you don't need to wait till you have the fancy equipment and the lighting and stuff. Like, it's about the content first and foremost, and you can always improve your craft along the way. But like you said, you can't improve without failure, progress, or those reps. So I think that's really important, you know? And, and, and you and I have both learned that the hard way, you know? I'm- I just recently passed 300 episodes, and I'll tell you what, and I don't know if you've ever done this, but I've listened back to some of the first ever episodes and I, I wanna delete them. You know, I wanna unpublish those 'cause I'm like, man. Like I'm sure you look back and you're like, man, I just wasn't as articulated, or I just don't sound as smart, or I just wasn't asking as good questions as I am now. I look back at like when I first started guesting to some of the more s- recent shows I've been on. Like I learned, one of the things I learned was how to hone down my message, you know? Like my story used to be kind of very scattered and drawn out. Now it's like I've compacted it to hit the most information and have the most impact in a shorter amount of time because a lot of shows that I guested on, they're like, "Hey, you only got, you know, five minutes per question," or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Without a doubt, yeah. You know, you develop how to, to ask questions and like do you feel like you have developed skills as an interviewer more and more as you've podcasted? Oh, yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, and like people ask me, like, Jason, how do you ask these great questions? I, well, I d- I... Based off of conversation, whatever pops in my head. Like when I interview someone or talk to someone, I ask them a question. While they're answering, all these other questions are flying through my head, right? And whenever they stop answering, whatever's in my mind is what, what I ask, right? Yeah, for sure. And s- and, and so like I'll do like a talking points. Like I, I'll get somebody's bio and, and social media stuff. I have like 10 to 15 talking points. You us- only, only get like two or three of those talking points 'cause everything else just comes from the natural conversation. Here's the real question. Have you ever interviewed your wife on the show? No. She would never do that, no. She would never do that? W- why, why not? She's not, she's not that type of person. Yeah, she's very private. She's not... Like, like she'll joke around, "Jason, how do you meet all these people? Are you not scared they're gonna, like, kidnap you or kill you or something, right?" You know, she's one of those who'll tell it right. She's like, yeah, very, like, to herself. Yeah, she would, no, she would never do that. Yeah, she's definitely- Yeah. Well, I feel you on that. I'm still trying to get my missus to interview, and she's very shy and quiet. So I, I feel you on that, but I think it, it would be an interesting experience, you know. And I, I think shout out to Steve Wright. He's one of my buddies. He's a podcaster as well. He got to interview his mom and ask her certain questions about parenting and life and he said interviewing her, he got to know her in, in ways that he never did as a son, so, pretty awesome. And actually, I, my joke I made, I was like, always interview your parents on your podcast. Unless you're running, like, the Sexy Kings podcast, then you don't wanna interview your parents, right? No, definitely not. You might, you might not wanna know. No, definitely not. Yeah. But I, I think that, I was just curious, what a- what about your, your children? Are they gr- I assume they're grown up now. They're all grown. Yeah, they're not doing that either, no. No. Man, that, I, I think it would be neat to do, like, a family podcast or something, but that's just me. You know, and, and people have asked me, like, "Mr. Whiskey, when you have kids, are you gonna push them into the podcast field or whatever?" And I, I think, you know, I'm gonna lead by passion. And if they wanna follow me into that craft, I'll help prepare them for that. But if they wanna do something else, as long as it's not be- a nuclear operator in the United States Navy, I will tell them yes. You know? But I, I, all, all jokes, but, you know, I believe it's important to not push stuff onto your children, but if they see that you're performing well and love what you do, they'll, they'll wanna know about it. And I said, you know, if a time comes where they wanna interview me or have me interview them by all means, but I'm never gonna be like, "Son, it's your birthday. I wanna interview you." You know- Yeah ... that's it. Take it as it is. So I, I think it's definitely an interesting experience, you know. And I think it's strange that I'm part of a generation where, like... Like, when it came to my grandparents, there was, like, no photos of them at all. Like, I think I saw maybe one wedding day photo of my grandmother, and that's it. Now I think about how I'll have kids, and if they ever find my Instagram, it's gonna be, like, years and hundreds of posts of me, and they're, they're gonna be like, "Look at Dad with that terrible mustache he tried to grow out." You know? Like, compared to my grandparents, like, it's weird to, to think about this. And really what brought, brought it to mind was actually this guy made a, a joke online where he had a, a picture of a woman who was, like, all goth and covered in piercings and s- and spikes and, like, lingerie, and he's like I'm gonna be telling my kids, like, this was their grandma back in the day. And I, I thought to myself, I was like, that is so strange to think about that now. Like, we didn't have the proof of what our grandparents used to be like, but now we have all this digital technology. Like, even your grandkids one day, I, I don't know if you have any yet, but they're gonna be, like, checking out your old episodes or something, and be like, "That's what he used to look like? What happened to him?" Yep. You know? So yeah. I don't know if that's something you've ever thought about at all. Actually, I haven't thought about it like that, but I probably need to. Yeah, it's, like, a, a strange thought to have now, so. Yeah, but I've met you in the middle of long form. I've done two and a half hours, so it's not your three hours or five hours, but it's more than my hour and 10, hour and a half. So, I'll start to close it up here. I really like what you left us with, which is, you know, don't impose self-limits. Don't l- limit yourself with fear, with anxiety, with assumptions, with thoughts, and then just start. Is there anything else you'd like to top it off with? Man, like I said, just, I mean, I, I, I have a saying that I do is, like, always believe in yourself when others don't, and especially always believe in yourself when you don't believe in your own self, right? 'Cause we have self-doubt- Mm ... right? So even if you have self-doubt, just re- remind yourself, "You know what? I can do this. I, I, I can do this kind of stuff," right? There's like, you know, there's a lot of things to do out in the world. Try, try to be a better person, so to speak, right? Try new things, meet new people. Travel. You know, if you're this type of person who, like, lives in one neighborhood all your life, you know, there's, there's things out there you go get, you can go experience, right? Meet new peoples, try new foods. Just, you know, life's to be lived, right? And l- live life the best you can. Of course, I know economically maybe you can't do it right now, but there's something you can do. You could go... Even, like, suppose you live in, like, I wanna say, like, live in Dallas, Texas, right? Go to a different neighborhood, right? Go to a different part of town. You know, just do something different, you know? Make the world a better place. Amen to that. Yeah, there's so much out there to do and explore, and so many of ourselves are just keeping us in our own little bubble because of maybe it's self-doubt, maybe it's just not being interested in what's out there. But there is so much out there to do and explore. And, you know, being a podcaster and traveling to speak on different stages and meet guests in real life, I've gotten to explore. Like, I grew up in a home that was racist and xenophobic, and, like, I thought New Jersey was all of America. I didn't even know there was really other states. And then I got out and traveled, and, like, my mind was opened. Like, w- like, even what we shared about Vietnam earlier, like, going to Japan versus what I saw online about Japan, going to different states compared to what I, I, I thought, you know? There's so much hate in the world, and there are so many projections about what places are rather than what they actually are. So I encourage you, like, go out and actually find the truth for yourself. Like, go there. Maybe you, maybe you'll agree with people, maybe you won't like it but at least you know for yourself. Or maybe you'll go there like I have, and you'll be like, "Wow, this place and these people are not what I thought at all, and, like, this has unlocked a whole new chapter in my life of something to do." So I highly encourage everyone to get out there. And then Mr. Cavness, of course, I wanna promote you a little bit at the end here. If you have any website or social media handles, obviously they're all gonna be in the description below, but if you just wanted to share a little bit about them, and who really you think would take away the most from what you do, both business side and then podcast side? So business side is probably-- So, like I said before, I deal with several things. The US market director for TechBank. We do, do software development for enterprise companies. Help source deals for Earth VC. We invest in deep tech startups like, and, and AI and, and, and quantum physics, all that kind of stuff. Also a podcast. I'm always looking for great podcast guests. Of course, has to be... Is, is only in person, right? Yeah. Business-wise, I, I, I'm a, a pretty good connector of people, right? Being in the pod can meet so many different people. Like, for example I heard a good example. So, I didn't meet her during the MCC, but a lady named, I think her name's Elena, right? She works for Core Group. So her company, they do basically like finances for creatives, right? Well, next week I'm talk- speaking at, at a creative conference, and so I connected Elena with the guy running it, A- Arif Gusso, so I connected them two, right? So just stuff like that I try to do, yeah. Yeah, for sure. So again, we'll have everything in the description below for people to check out. Like we've mentioned, you've got quite a variety of guests and episodes out already for people to find whatever really their heart calls to them. You know, maybe not every episode is for everyone, but everyone has an episode for them, is what I like to describe my podcast as, and I, I believe yours is the same. So, Mr. Cavness, it's been great catching up with you, getting to know you a little bit more. I definitely wanna make it out to Seattle sometime to guest on your podcast as well. And if not before then, I'm sure I'll see you at Military Creator Con or some other conference or- Yeah ... somewhere in, in between. So, and yeah, I look forward to that. And maybe we'll meet up and make some social media clips together as well. So we, we've got lots of connecting to do in the future. But I appreciate you taking some time out of your evening tonight to connect here on the Couple of Nooks podcast. Thank you, Mr. Wiskia. We appreciate it.