Rockin' Your Recovery: Faith, Sobriety, & Building A Rock-Solid Foundation

Today's episode is an in-person experience with Jay Bush, host of the Rock N' Recovery podcast, for a raw, unfiltered conversation about addiction recovery, faith, mental health, and what it truly means to build a solid foundation in sobriety. Mr. Bush and I reflect on our previous conversations, how our shows intersect, and why honest dialogue—without sugarcoating pain—is essential for real healing and mentorship.

Throughout this episode, we break down the meaning behind “Rock N' Recovery,” exploring sobriety as both an active commitment and a spiritual foundation. Mr. Bush shares his journey through early recovery, how faith plays a central role in sustaining long-term sobriety, and why service to others is one of the most powerful accountability tools available. We also discuss how anxiety, fear of the future, and untreated trauma often fuel addiction cycles, and why focusing on what is within your control can radically change recovery outcomes.

We go deep into accountability, complacency, and identity—drawing parallels between nuclear safety culture, addiction recovery, and spiritual discipline. This conversation also addresses shame in recovery, the difference between remission and relapse, non-traditional recovery methods, and why people must genuinely want sobriety for any system or program to work. This episode is an honest resource for anyone navigating addiction, supporting a loved one, or seeking faith-grounded tools for long-term recovery and mental resilience. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rock-n-recovery/id1833797789

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Rocking and Nuuk in Your Recovery, the Fusion Podcast of the Rocking Recovery Podcast and the couple of nukes podcasts hosted by none other than Mr. Whiskey. And President Bush, also known as Jay Bush. It is great to be here today. We are gonna be, I guess, interviewing each other, uh, more so having a conversation.

First of all, Jay, great to see you in person in the flesh. For those of you who don't know. I was first on Jay's show and then he came on my show. Both times great conversations. He and I, you know, we don't hold back the truth. We had those raw, honest conversations that get into some dark subjects. But you know, the goal isn't to bring down the mood or to discourage it, is to cultivate life lessons, to make our look backs someone else's look forward.

It is about mentorship and empowerment. Isn't that right, Jay? Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you. More. And you know, uh, as I've progressed in this podcasting journey and my sobriety journey, it's great to meet people just like you. Just bringing awareness to not only mental health, but addiction and recovery and everything else under the spectrum, right?

Because it's all connected together. You know, mental health plays into suicidal ideation. Suicidal ideation plays into mental health. Both of those play into addiction. Addiction plays into suicide. We've seen a lot of suicides happen under the influence of drugs and alcohol or one or the other, as well as just mental health.

And so, one thing I want to get into, you know, today I want to talk about rock and recovery, your podcast. Uh, last time you were on my show, you talked about the, the dual meaning of it, right? Like rock and roll, rock your recovery, and then you're rocking your recovery like you're owning it. I wanna get into that music aspect a little bit more, keep things a little bit lighter.

We're still gonna get into the nitty-gritty, but also needs, you gotta be a rock. Like, you know, Jesus Christ, he built this foundation, his church on a rock. Right? You know, the same principle applies there too. So for you, what is the rock that you build the foundation on in terms of sobriety, uh, helping others?

Uh, first, you know, first and foremost, Jesus Christ is my savior. Uh, second, uh, I am grateful that I am in recovery, that I'm sober enough and able enough to help another person. What I get from that, you know, so first of all, ladies and gentlemen, Greek lesson time, the word minister actually comes from the Greek word, uh, DNOs.

Diakonos means to serve and help others as well as execute commands and minister. And so I think now, I'm not sure, but you know, I'm pretty sure Deacon comes from that word. That's my theory. Uh, someone fact checked me on that, you know, but diakonos means to, to serve and help others. And you talk about helping others being the foundation, the rock on which it is built.

And I think we can unpack that to purpose identity. And staying busy too. Just your drive behind it all. It's the founding, you know, that is where you can turn to and say, my recovery is solid. Solid is a rock. You know, it's got many different connotations. Rocky Recovery encompasses 'em all. There's a music aspect, you know, you can get lost into the music and fight off those things, right?

There's the. You gotta rock your recovery. Just keep rocking. Just keep being there for other people. Show, show the world that it's possible to recover, you know? Right. Don't be scared of it. Don't, don't be intimidated by it. Don't be ashamed by it. Be proud. And I think that's part of the issue is, you know, recovery can have a lot of shame around it in terms of your identity being, um, you know, once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic in the sense that you will always be tied down to your past as a failure.

And I think, you know, I. Recovered alcoholic should be a, a different identity from alcoholic. You know, they are two different points in your life. That's the, the key difference. I agree. You know, it's, I equate addiction to like cancer. You know, you, you can go to treatment for cancer. Right. It's in remission.

Once you're in recovery from your addiction, right, that addiction is in remission until or if you make the choice to go use again. Right. You are a cancer survivor, don't, they don't say, you know, you're, you know, you're a cancerous. Right? Right. You are a cancer survivor and I think, you know, what I want to get into is.

You know, nuking things out over here in real life rocks, you know, over time due to wind erosion, water factors, they can get cracks in them and start to wear down. Real life is no different. The foundation you build for yourself, for sobriety or whatever it is you're doing, it will encounter obstacles that will try to break it down.

What are some of those obstacles and what can we do to help, um, you know, erode proof? Our rock foundation, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. Amen is the ultimate, uh, erode proof as you so put it, uh, to any foundation. You know, if you have him in your heart, he fills all the holes. He fills all the gaps. If you got a crack in your foundation, fill it with Jesus.

And most importantly, what you didn't say, but I, I could hear it behind the words. He is the same today, tomorrow, and forever. Right? This is no flex tape or gorilla glue that's gonna break down over time. This is the same today, tomorrow, and forever. It is consistent and most importantly, ladies and gentlemen, in, in accordance to the scripture, especially if you've ever read the Book of Esther.

I love that book because in that book, that historical account. God is not mentioned once. It is the only historical account in the whole Bible where God has not mentioned yet. You can see every way he is working. In that same sense, Jesus Christ is constantly reaching out for you. You know, you don't have to go far to go find him.

He's right there waiting for you. And I've seen a lot of, you know, newspaper comics where Jesus is sitting at a restaurant waiting for the person. The person shows up, texting on their phone, Hey, Jesus, good to see you. Uh, I need to raise up my job a day off and a girlfriend, and I gotta go bye. And the winter comes over and he goes, same time tomorrow.

He goes Every day. Every day. Even even after being stood up, after being, you know, uh, abused and neglected. And I think that is so beautiful. That is what it unconditional love is. Well, you know, just like in the Bible, as you, uh, brought in, Esther's one of the, is the only book. About a female. It, it's the only female named book also, you know, I got a, I got a scripture check.

You there with Ruth? Okay, go ahead. Oh, Ruth, the, his choral account of Ruth is also, I was, I was thinking Ruth probably, I don't know which one. I was thinking there's, there's two. Ruth and Esther. There's Ruth and Esther. Yeah. Yep. There sure is. Darn it. This is what good accountability looks like. Dang it. I hate when the other people are right.

But on that, you know, where did Jesus go to find his disciples? You know, where did he go to to find his disciples? He went into the worst areas to find the disciples, right, to initiate changing them. If you've already got Jesus, then why is then, why do you need to listen to him? You know, why? Why? Well, that's exactly what was written is it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

And that really put it into perspective, ladies and gentlemen. So, you know, we look at the terminology, we look at tax collectors. Very different than what it is today. Yes. And so, uh, a woman in my life said, you know, Mr. Whiskey, he'd be like, not tax collectors. The better equivalent would be if Jesus was with strippers, prostitutes, and, you know, drug addicts and criminals.

You know, most tax collectors as we've seen. They were taking more than their fair share and they were, you know, working for the Romans against their own people. And so it really put it into perspective for me because you think about if you saw a man claiming to be the son of God surrounded by people that you would stay away from, it makes it hard to be like, what is this guy doing?

You know, understanding that. But I think it's so powerful to be in those spaces where other people can't. That's why I have such respect for prison ministry. Not everyone can do it, you know, not every, not everyone is qualified to do it. Um, even the people who try to help out with prison mental health in our, in that position as a therapist.

And same with the military. You have to go. Live through that stuff. Like who is the therapist? Therapist? Because you are hearing some things that are just truly ungodly a nightmare. Who's the listener's listener? Right? And you know, and sometimes the best gift about listening is you can talk to yourself.

You can listen to yourself. And in that is almost like a meditation, you know? And you're just sitting with yourself and you know, if you just start speaking like, uh, he's your friend, you know, and when I talk about he, Jesus Christ, when you start speaking and just like a friend, you know it, everything seems to be less heavy.

I. Right. You know, life is heavy as it is. A hundred percent Life. Life as a burden is, is huge. It's a huge burden. But when you have somebody like him to just lighten the load or like any other good friend to just lighten the load to share with it, the opposite of addiction is connection, right? And we are called to bear each other's infirmities and burden.

For one another. You know, that's part of that serving is listening, active listening, and sometimes that's all it is. You know, you don't even have to do something. A lot of people are afraid to say. Hey, do you need help? How are you doing? Because they don't want to actually do the follow through and work of listening, having a whole conversation of listening, or they're worried that the listening will lead to action that has to be taken.

But you know, a good friend of Jay and I, you know, last night she had to go pick up a friend who was struggling mental health wise. And I mentioned when I was in the military, I had to do that. People would show up at my barracks room. Late at night, you know, midnight 3:00 AM we gotta wake up at 5:00 AM 4:00 AM and they would say, Mr.

Whiskey, I just need to go for a car ride. Doesn't matter where, just into the South Carolina country. And just talk. And I've done a lot of work in the suicide prevention space and what I'll say for all the parents out there, all the mentors out there. The car creates an intimate, yet distant space that is great for talking with your children.

They don't have to make eye contact yet. They feel close to you. They can look over at you if, if, if wanted. They can look out at the window and feel distant and like they're not being judged. So it's a great space, not the car. As soon as they, you know, throw their book bag in and they're on the way home from school.

But if you go out for a ride, especially a longer one, it creates a better space if you try to. Get your children to open up on the couch or the bed. Those are often associated with a disciplinary talk, a lecture. That is where a lot of times you have those serious talks in your household because kitchen table, right, right.

The kitchen. You don't wanna sit down at the kitchen table, you know? And, uh, you know, you and I were talking about stories today about getting in trouble in school and I remember my parents called me. On the bus ride home one time, son, we're gonna let you know. Principal Al already called home. We don't want you spending the whole bus ride anxious.

We already know what happened and we're gonna talk when we get home. And I said, well now I'm just doubly anxious. Yeah. You know, and when it comes to anxiety, Pete from Pete versus anxiety, I need, I need whatever you used to kill anxiety, I need it too. But, um, you know, you already mentioned the, the ultimate weapon against anxiety, which is Jesus Christ.

You said, do not be anxious or afraid. No one can add a date by worrying. And I loved, I heard at a, a Bible study, anxiety is having trust issues with God. Wow. You know, the more you say that I, I equate anxiety as thinking of too much into the future. You know, if you're so worried about what's to be and it's never guaranteed.

Right. You know, if you think about that, the future is never guaranteed. There might be one, there might not, but that keeps me more grounded in today and I have less anxiety now than you know, ever before. Because you know what? I lived, I get to live today, just for today. I don't think about tomorrow. Right.

If I'm alive tomorrow, yeah. I plan on doing stuff. Yeah, absolutely. If I can, if I'm able, yeah. I plan on it. But do I know what that stuff is? No. I'm gonna wake up maybe, right? You know, I'm gonna get dressed, maybe, you know, if I'm able to, you know, but that keeps the anxiety down. Just not getting so stuck in the tomorrows that you can live today will reduce anxiety.

Right, and there is such a key difference between planning and worrying. Setting up a battle plan for tomorrow for your long-term goals, for your short-term goals is different than just worrying about it without taking action. I think the most difficult situation is just waiting. You know when you are.

Anxious about something. You set up everything to take care of it. But it's gonna be a few days, a few weeks, you're waiting to hear back results. And I understand that. I've been there plenty of times, whether maybe it's, uh, legal paperwork from court, maybe it's divorce papers, maybe it's uh, you know, uh, uh, certain check in the mail or, or you apply to a job.

And that weight can be so anxious and test results, it's Oh, test results for sure. You know, and luckily, you know, nowadays you get it back instantly with all this electronic stuff, you know, know no more. It was, if you didn't have the Scantron, you had to wait till it was hand rated. Now, now they don't even have Scantron.

You just do it in a, a Google Docs online instant and it's like boom grade, you know, I'm talking like test results for, you know, medical issues. Oh, good friend of mine, a good friend of mine, like real good friend of mine. Uh, he's more of a fa father figure or brother than my own. Uh, you know, he was, uh, facing cancer.

He had liver cancers 'cause of all the drugs and the, the drinking that he used to do. Right. You know, it caught up to him and he was scared for probably the last six months. And in October he went in for tests and then. Again, uh, in November he went into tests and yesterday he got the test results back at 1230.

At 1245 he was calling me. And guess what, Jay, guess what? I'm good. No cancer. Liver function is 100%. You know, and that lightened his load. 'cause you could tell his burden in him down so much. Oh yeah, much. A hundred percent. The, the anxiety, if they would've said he had cancer, he would've been just as relieved as Right.

That, you know, just from the stress and everything else. Well, it goes into any fear. Fear of the unknown is the greatest. Yes. Is the greatest problem. And you know, that's why it's, it's difficult 'cause we wanna know everything rather than trusting a God who knows everything. Yeah. And I, I get it. You know, I mean, I think about children who grow up in a home and they see their parents are worrying and they're, they're like, what's gonna happen to us?

And the parents were like, you know, don't worry about it. We got it. And I, I saw a great sermon the other day where the guy said. Most children, you know, not in general terms, but most children, they never worry about the mortgage or when their next meal is. They just trust that their parents are gonna provide because that's what they do as a parent.

Right. And he said, but so many people don't do that with God. You know? And going along with that, we are taught how to be in, have anxiety. We are taught how to have anxiety about worrying about everything that is un not under our control. Right. Well, and. Because of social media, the age of the internet.

Fomo. Fear of missing out. Yeah. Uh, global politics. You know, there are people worrying about things all, and I think to a degree you should be worried about other humanitarian issues. You know, a part of that Kono serving one another. But at the same time, if you are watching that stuff first thing in the morning or first thing at, or last thing at night.

Rather it's drinking your cup of coffee reading the newspaper. Right. And you don't wanna wake up to it, and you don't wanna go to bed to it. And there's so many people that you know, they just watch the news every night. They say, I'm not watching the news before night anymore. And then they still do it and they can't sleep.

And sometimes I'm like. You know, you're worried about this thing all the way across the world. It's terrible, don't get me wrong. But what I find so important is that focus on what's in your control. And that is, you know, your family first, then your friends, then your community, then maybe your, your county, then your state.

You have to work from the smallest level outward without ripple, refa, right? Or, you know, you gotta travel and do missionary work or whatever it may be. But that's also gonna be localized, right? Yes. You're not gonna go save all of Africa. You're gonna go serve a part of Africa. Or part of South America, whatever your mission is, whatever your calling is.

Uh, but you know, a lot of us have these big, grand ideas of how we could fix everything. And I, I think of job, you know, when it comes to, like, a lot of us criticize the president, whoever the president is, right? Yeah. But at the same time. I don't think many of us realize the amount of responsibility of right.

Public pressure of all the red tape just being in the military and what was aren't behind the scenes. Right. And so I think of Joe when God was like, alright, take a step back. Look at this, this, this, this. I think at the president actually did a a God to job speech to us. No one would believe him, unfortunately right now.

Right. And no matter who the president was, but if you actually went through all that, you'd be like, that is a lot more than I think. You know, people think the president just goes around playing golf, right. And it's like, heaven forbid someone have some free time. Now, I'm not saying you should only do that, but I think.

The presidency, like any occupation should be a, um, an occupation, not a lifestyle, right? It is a bigger position and you should focus on it as much as you can for that time period, but I think part of what we need is better support systems. Throughout from, from the local level to the state level, to the federal level?

Level? Yeah. I think we need a whole restructuring of everything, to be honest. I think a restructuring of the mental health, uh, system, uh, the prison systems, uh, just the way they treat p addicts. You know, because let's be real, you can die of cancer, right? And everybody like, oh man, he was such a fighter. He, I, I we're sorry for your loss, but if you're an addict and died, it's like, oh, you get what you deserve.

You get what you deserve. Right? Oh, that, that, we expected that. And it's never about the fight for the addict because an addict is in a fight for his life daily. Right Daily. You know, he's one of the most hustling people. He's the hardest working. He works hard, harder than most to get his drug, you know?

Well, and I think one of the most painful things, because I've seen it, having a father who is addicted, is when you are with an addict and you can see that there is that part of them that does not want this, that hates this, that is miserable. But it is so much weaker than, than the demons and everything else going on.

I, I really like Dr. Brian Crain, very intelligent man. He came on the show, uh, he wrote a book about how to get your loved ones, uh, sober and how to get them into rehab. And we had a great conversation about the loved ones, about being held emotionally hostage. Right, right. And I've done a lot of work on enablement as the loved ones.

Because you are playing this balance of. You don't wanna support their addiction, you don't wanna hurt their feelings, you wanna maintain relationships. It becomes a difficult struggle and balance. And what we shared in that, he said, addiction is like a demon doing pushups in the corner. It is constantly right there waiting for you to slip up and it's gonna be ready.

It's, it's always gonna be there, and you can lock it off as much as you want. But you know, he worked with a gentleman, I think sober for almost 70 years, or he was in his seventies and had been sober for decades. He said, I've been sober for decades, but you know what? If you put a line of coke in front of me right now, there's no guarantee.

I wouldn't just do it to do it. Alright. And that's the, that's the, that's dangers, that's the dangerous thing. I had to talk with somebody, uh, yesterday. And they're far enough long in the recovery where they're thinking their head is telling them, oh, you, you've got this, you've got this. You've never really got it under control.

You've got it. It's recessed. It's, it's, you know, right in the background still. But you know, once you start thinking that you've got it under control is where you're at your most dangerous because then you know, ah, I can possibly do it and stop later. But isn't that what got you into addiction in the first place, is saying, ah, yeah.

I'm just gonna try it and I, I can stop whenever I want. I can stop whenever I want. Right. You know, and that ne that took 30 years for me to stop. I tell y'all what, you know, I say this all the time. One of the things I like to quote for the nuclear navy complacency kills. It does. Right. So the reactor could have a, you could have a nuclear incident on a, on a international level at any time technically, right?

Yeah. There's a lot. Now. They're safe. We have a lot of systems set up. Automatic backups. Automatic backups. Right. Plus the operators, you know, front line of defense, and sometimes the last line, sometimes the first line. That being said, so many nuclear operators, ego every day without an incident. So you start, right, gun decking, which is when in the military you're writing down gauge numbers without looking at the gauges.

Oh, it's always at X, Y, Z, A, B, C. But what happens when it ain't? When it right? So they say complacency kills, and it's the same thing with sobriety. You know, and I've. We've talked before on the show about the justification game. You know, my, my father and every addict, um, every holiday is an excuse to drink, you know, and, uh, I've had people, Thanksgiving is a big one, right?

Is the biggest in the nation, actually. Well, that, and I was gonna say, St. Patrick's Day is a huge one too. It's second. It's second to Thanksgiving, really. Thanksgiving is the biggest drinking holiday. In the nation. And it's not the day of, from what I was told, it's the day before, day before, which is crazy.

Or the day after, the Friday after. Right. So it's just a three day event at that point. It's a three day bender. It's a mini conference. It's drinks giving, you know, it's blackout Friday, not Black Friday. It's Blackout Friday. Blackout Friday. And drinks giving, uh, you know, I haven't heard those before. I've heard of Friendsgiving.

And we are right near Friendship Fountain. We're here in Jacksonville, Florida, recording together. Uh, highly encourage you to watch this video if you're listening to audio sides. So you can see Jay and I in person two great looking men, his words not mine, and, you know, but even like I've had people, like I, you know, I hate to use my father as an example all the time, but for him, sobriety meant he wasn't drinking vodka.

Okay? It meant. Gin was fine, wine was fine, whatever else, right? I've had people from Korea, oh, soju is fine. As long, or if it's not soju, then it's fine. Whatever your, your vice is, so to speak, whatever your poison of choice. So addiction is anything that is helping you cope with something. It's the way you cope.

It's a side. Addiction is a side effect of however you're coping with whatever you're going through. And you, you, there's people out there. I'll, I'll, you know, we know some very famous people like Jelly Roll. He owns a bar. He owns one of the biggest nightclubs in, uh, Nashville, and he still drinks, but he's in recovery from a drug.

He doesn't drink to excess. He's, it's not right Unmanageable. His, it's not an issue for him. There's so many other people like that too, that, you know, I was addicted to high speed chicken feet. I like to call it, it's methamphetamine. Uh, and yeah, could I go drink? Absolutely. But could I do anything else?

That was an ad. Absolutely I could, but I, it wouldn't be right for me to do it right. Uh, because I know it, especially the mind altering drugs, it's altering my mind and it's gonna bring me up to a place where I could potentially slip back into what I do a hundred percent. Because, Ooh, I've got this under control.

See, I've got this under control. Mm-hmm. So there's really big signs for addicts, uh, to not do, if you're doing it while you're in any kind of mood other than, uh, an okay mood if you're in an okay mood, I. And you're a drinker, don't drink. Alright. Find something else to take up your time. A hundred percent.

But those people that thinking that they're alcoholics, if an alcoholic is somebody that can't put it down it, they're blackout drunks, they cannot stop drinking. Right? They're using it to cope with whatever they're going through. If you're not using it to cope, you're not an alcoholic. And I wanna say this, you know.

I did a sermon, uh, it's a solo faith-based sermon on why we as believers do not partake in mind altering substances. It's, uh, I think it's a very great sermon because a lot of us as believers, we, I, I would say one of the biggest compromises is there are a lot of believers who do weed or get drunk, uh, excessively.

And both of those are against, you know, the alignment of scripture. And so that sermon breaks it down. A lot of people who are believers will say no to that stuff, but they don't have the scriptural backing. And sometimes they get pressured or convinced through, um, phrases like it's a spiritual journey, though we're doing the mind altering substance to get in touch with our inner self.

At the end of the day, it's all our compromise is somos, which is Greek for the spirit of self-control will and inner self that God gives us through the Holy Spirit. Somos, right? So that's Greek for that, that self-discipline, self-control. And it's part of my addiction, recovering, uh, recovery program. And that sermon breaks it down.

And like you said, when you allow yourself to lose control, and here's one thing I mentioned in that sermon, is that there is no safe space. And what I mean by that is some people will say, well, it's okay for me as an addict or as a person to drink or do drugs with these people because these are my friends.

That was not your friends. Well that is number one. But even if they are, it's not about just the external factors, it's about what's going on internally, right? I mean, you can have your friends there and Satan can be right behind you, right? It doesn't matter. There is no safe space because the enemy prs around like a roaring line looking for someone to feast on.

Paraphrasing, but that's pretty darn close. It is pretty dang close. And so I, I would say, you know, there is no safe space. It's not that your friends are bad people. And, and even if your friends are also addicts. It's not, they're not doing it maliciously most of the time right now. Some people will put you into drugs and alcohol to take advantage of you.

Absolutely. And that's a totally different conversation, especially in relationships. You were gonna say something, I was actually gonna ask you a question. How has it growing up with an alcoholic, you know, it's, it's interesting because it. My father's been drinking since he was about 12, 13 years old, and because of, I, I grew up in an, uh, a home of addiction.

My father was an alcoholic, who, like I said, he had that part of him that did not want that, and he did not want that for his children. And so he villainized alcohol. He said, do as I say, not as I do, because I am a hypocrite. I cannot fight this. You know, he has cried with his head in my lap when he, I, I got him out of the hospital.

They said, sir, you have 20 times the lethal amount of alcohol to kill a human being in your system 20 times. They asked how he was alive and I said, I pray for him every day to to be alive, because there was a point where he was off the deep end. Doing cocaine, soaked in gasoline. Wow. I mean, it's just, it's bad for you, trust me.

Yeah. Along with, um, what, what is he call it? The, the horse tranquilizers. Ketamine. Ketamine and stuff like that. Yep. Along with crushed up Adderall, all kinds of stuff. Yeah. I mean, he would mix all kinds of stuff like a chemical lab and. You know, you don't realize it. So growing up in a home where he villainized it on purpose, you know, I really thought it did things that it didn't.

Right. I assumed everyone who drank had no memory or recollection that you blacked out, that you couldn't control yourself. And then, you know, these high schoolers were sharing stories of where. You know, they did remember stuff. So I was like, Hmm, that's interesting. And for me, what really changed my perspective, I was sworn against alcohol.

I saw it destroy my father's life. I saw how much money it took away from the family. Right? Tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands. Addictions are expensive. Our friend Jasmine Bootle, I mean, I don't remember how much money she shared, but on, on one of our episodes together. I mean, whew. Man.

The amount of money. I mean, and you look back at that and you're like, so much I could have done with that. Yeah. And so. I never wanted it, but a buddy of mine, my best friend from bootcamp who was gonna be a monkey, join the military instead, he said, you know what, Mr. Whiskey? You have not chosen to not drink.

I said, what do you mean? He goes, you just live in fear of it. He goes, if you drink and never drink again, then you have chosen, but right now you just live in this, in fear of it, of what it has done to your father and to other addicts. So I told him, well, let's write down the, a legal contract that if I become an addict, you're responsible and you know, we're taking you to court.

My kids can take you for everything you have. But you know what, I, I drank Jay and I didn't become. Violent or aggressive, sexually abusive. I didn't lose control of myself. I realized, you know, everyone has a threshold, a certain amount that they can drink, and it's different for everyone. You and I even discussed, uh, different types of alcohol for different people.

Yeah. You know, and it's so interesting. And so like I said, I, I don't drink if I'm in a bad mood, if I'm alone. Being an addiction recovery coach and working with so many people, hearing stories like yours, like the other people on my show, it helps keep me so self-aware. Yes. And I think because of my household, they say I am a lot more likely statistically to fall into that.

Typically they say it's a 50 50 where children of addiction either become very against it, never touch it, or they fall into it. Right. And you know, I definitely. Keep self aware of that, you know, because I have seen what it has done as a, a son of it. I have seen what it has done to other people's families.

And one of my goals one day is to some AA groups let you sit in as, as one of the loved ones. And I'd love to go there and, and do that. You know, my podcast is kind of like that space to a degree with that one-on-one intimate connection. But I'd love to kind of sit in and hear it. But, you know, my, my dad, he's one of those people where, and this is, this, this is true.

AA is not for him, right? It's not fair for is not for him because in his perspective he goes, it gets me so down and depressed. I just wanna drink, hearing about all these people's failures. Yeah, I need to go to an AA that it's all positive. No past, just future. And so, ladies and gentlemen, you know I have a book coming out.

I don't know when, but it's called Nuuk in Your Addiction. And it's a compilation from my show of all the non-traditional ways of addiction recovery. We've covered, uh, red light lasers. Therapy, acupuncture. We've covered fitness, faith. Aa Rehab, Arua Ranch. Shout out to nonprofit Arka Ranch, where you go and live a farmer's life of sobriety and just do ranch work and, and work on yourself.

Nonprofit Massimo Godi. The Sober Method. The Sober Flavors of Confidence. Shout out Massimo, you know, um, and his beautiful curly hair. Oh man, that guy. He's a great guy. Um, it's so funny because y'all recorded with him. Like a year after I did, and he had like more books than when I recorded with him, you know?

So, yeah, but even nowadays, ladies and gentlemen, there are Facebook groups, Instagram groups. There are so much, there's a group, so many accountabilities. There's a group for everything, for every addiction, and I think that even drinking pine soul, you just hit on one of the main topics, and that's being accountable not only to yourself but to other people.

If you got a good group of people that can hold you accountable, and that means you holding yourself accountable, you'll make it, hand it down, you'll make it. A hundred percent. And that's why I, like I said, the tagline and the, the word I use, 'cause there's a lot of Bible quotes about addiction recovery, believe it or not, the reason I stick with Somos is because it's about self-control, self-discipline, and that includes accountability, right?

When you have, you need discipline to hold yourself accountable. Yeah. And if you lack that discipline, that's why you have other people. Right, right. You had that support system and I, I think it's so important and, you know, JS we wrap up here 'cause it's getting chilly out. It's getting cold. Cold. It's getting cold, cold saying, let's go inside.

Right, right. You know, what would be your main message? How, how many years sober are you right now? I actually, in five days, I hit a year and a half. A year and a half, right? Yes. So you're still in that I'm still early in sobriety. Right. And, you know, I did it cold Turkey, which I don't re recommend for anybody.

I didn't have a support system. I, I figured out what works for me and it's worked for a whole lot of other people too, and that's helping the next person. Mm. Well they say the best way to learn is to teach someone. Yeah. And so what do you, would you say, was your podcast a catalyst for your sobriety or was it.

Um, what do you mean helping people? So, okay, so my podcast is all about addiction, recovery, and mental health. And in that a hundred percent there, there's many different topics, many different ways. Uh, there's a way that anybody that wants to can, and for what that does for me is it helps me stay accountable to everybody else.

Because if I'm doing this podcast mm-hmm. And I'm showing up inebriated or. Outta my gourd or a mind altered, you know what good, how many people are really gonna pay attention, right? And it is written in the Bible. I'm gonna paraphrase it, but it's like, and be on guard yourselves unless you fall into the temptation you preach against.

Uh, that's a paraphrase. I don't, but you know what quote I'm talking about. It's like. We are held to a higher standard. As teacher, you will be judged more harshly. You need to be even more accountable and disciplined because again, like you said, you can't have the hypocrisy you need to have. You know, one of my favorite sayings is our stories, our recovery stories is gonna be somebody else's survival guide.

Right? And I really take that to heart because I listen to everybody and I give everybody a chance to tell their story. You know, yes. There's some questions. Yes, I'll ask questions, you know, but mainly it's like, how did you do this during this time? And I wanna know that for me, right? Not for anybody else.

I wanna know that how you did it. So you know what, I can take what knowledge you've got and apply it to my own life if it fits right. Well, and we, I say. The beauty of being a podcast host and even a podcast listener is you are constantly adding to the library of your mind resources and tools for, for other people like you're talking about.

And I think ladies and gentlemen, what I wanna harp on is it's not a matter of what methodologies are out there. Like we mentioned, we already mentioned multiple, and there are even more out there that you can research. It all comes down to do you want it though? You've gotta want it for yourself. 'cause we can give you a hundred methods and you can try all of them.

At the end of the day, if you do not want it for yourself, not because other people told you to, not because of the, you want to get better yourself. That is what matters. Because if you don't want it, none of these methods will work. That's just how it is. People come back. I, I had a woman on my show, Jen Ally, shout out Jen Ally for, for Women in Addiction.

'cause people don't realize women are a alcoholics too. She said it wasn't until like the fifth time in rehab. Mm-hmm. Because that was the time she wanted it. Every other time she went because it was. Court ordered or, or pressured by family. Someone took her. You have to want it. But shout out to the people who force people to go to rehab.

Now, I, I don't like the word force. That sounds negative, but the people who will bring you when you are not in the right state of mind to decide for yourself. Yes. And, and you actually come out clean and sober and make the choice to want it because. I know some addicts who would not be here if someone didn't, you know, step up and take care of them.

Absolutely. So I, I really appreciate all the people stepping up. 'cause it is not easy to take care of an addicted loved one. You know, I've, I've talked with you and some other people. Yeah. Being an addiction re recovery coach, but not being able to reach my father because of the personal relationship.

It's frustrating. It is, it's frustrating to help so many people. And then the one man who has been my, you want patients since day one. Right. He was my patient since day one, but he's also the my teacher since day one. Right, right. He's the one who taught me about all of it. He's, he's your role model as grown up.

That was your father, you know. And, and he's the one who gave me all the insight into the mind of an alcoholic, absolutely through observation that no one else would see. I could go to AA meetings. I wouldn't see the stuff I saw in the living room, in the kitchen, hiding bottles. I mean, people bury them in their backyards with.

A shovel, stuff like that in the toilet fricking uh, reservoir, you know. Right in a, the back of the closet in the sock drawers. Yeah. Same places. I used to hide drugs, you know, I used to, oh man, I got so good at it. I used to hide it in the closet rail where the rollers are, you know, and nobody's ever gonna look there.

Right. You know, and it's bad. The thing, the go check your husband's closet Rollers, go check the hot closet rollers. Light cover switches. You can take those off too, right? Uh, but it's bad. Just thinking about the, the lengths I went to, to hide my addiction, when really I wasn't hiding it from anybody. I was hiding it from myself.

Right. Well, and, and yesterday I recorded with, uh, Ronnie Robinson. Shout out binge eating recovery. She would purposely rearrange the dessert tray to look like she had eaten less than she did. Stuff like that. Or she would say to her husband, he'd say, where'd all the cookies go? Oh, I gave them away to someone.

Or, oh, I, I threw them out. They were getting bad, like, you know. Mm-hmm. The same thing for, for alcohol, for drugs. And I have a gray episode with Mike Collins on sugar addiction. Oh yeah. You know. The, the stuff people will do to, to hide any addiction. But, um, what do you say? We get outta this cold weather.

Yeah, I was gonna say, Jay, so awesome to meet you in person. Absolutely. And you know, to nuke out, rock out. Just recovery, rock recovery. Rocking. Rocking at nuke t-shirts coming soon. Rock, nuke. And rock that recovery.