Digital Revival: Reaching Millennials, Gen Z, And Gamers Through Faith & Technology

Today, after a little more than a year, I sit down again with Sean Dunn, founder of Groundwire and creator of the “Jesus Cares” movement — a mission that has helped millions find faith through digital ministry and conversation-driven evangelism. Mr. Dunn joins me for a powerful conversation about hope, revival, and the next generation’s hunger for truth in a world that’s lost its way. We discuss the surprising trend of more young people returning to church, the rise of faith among young men, and how God is moving across the nation through unconventional platforms. 

Mr. Dunn shares the growth of his mission — reaching over a million people for Christ last year and on track for nearly two million this year. He reveals how Groundwire’s approach focuses not on suicide prevention alone but on introducing people to Jesus by meeting them in their pain and questions. Their campaigns range from JesusCares.com and GodLikesYou.com to sites like IFeelBroken.com, all designed to reach those who would never walk into a church but are searching for purpose online. We also talk about how the organization is bringing ministry into the gaming community — using technology to engage a generation that spends nearly half its free time in virtual spaces. 

Our conversation dives deep into scripture and the need for believers to return to God’s Word as their primary source of truth. Mr. Dunn reminds listeners that the Bible is alive and active — a daily necessity for spiritual growth rather than just a verse-of-the-day habit. Together we discuss faith’s balance between grace and accountability, the importance of teaching about sin and redemption, and the need to boldly share the whole gospel — not just the comfortable parts. We also share stories of divine appointments in everyday life, including how Mr. Dunn’s simple conversations in restaurants have led strangers to Christ. 

This episode is a call to action for anyone seeking to strengthen their faith and impact others in a digital age. We talk about how revival is spreading across the world, how Groundwire is planning to see 10 million people come to Christ in a single year, and how every believer can be a part of that mission. Whether you’re a pastor, parent, or young person seeking meaning, Mr. Dunn’s message is clear — God is still at work, the harvest is ready, and we are all called to the fields. 

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of nus. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I have really been looking forward to today's episode. Mr. Sean Dunn, I really think it's a testimony to God. I later in life, not originally, but as my journey of faith got stronger, started to say that this was God's show, right?

And I always say. It's about him taking the episodes to the right person at the right time in, in his timing. I don't chase after thousands or millions of downloads every day, right? That would be awesome. Don't get me wrong. But if it reaches just one person at the right place in the right time, that's what it's all about.

And I'm, I'm here with a man who has a mission similar to mine in a sense of, one of my goals is suicide prevention. It's getting faith out there through social media and they can be used together or, and. I say all that because my episode with Mr. Dunn was the most popular episode every single day.

Someone was listening to it out of all my episodes to know that Gen Z suicide prevention was such an important topic in that it was really getting put out there. It. It gave me hope. I, I have a, I've had plenty of episodes that I talk about lamenting this fallen world and being a weeping prophet and not hoping so much, but to see that it was really great.

And Mr. Sean Dunn, I wanna start this episode by sharing the quote you shared last time. It's right there behind you, I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields. They're ripe for a harvest. That's what you shared at the end of the last episode. So over the past year, how has the harvest been for you?

God is on the move. Something's going on in our nation, and, and I know that you talk a lot about, hopelessness and that leads to depression. That leads to suicidal ideation, all of those things. Yeah, man, God is the God of hope. And so p people who don't know hope, we need to introduce them to the God of hope.

People who lack peace. We need to introduce them to the prince of peace he is. Not an answer. He's this force. And so because this, this world is as crazy as it is people are very open, but there's, there's a very interesting thing going on right now in our nation, actually in the world as I see it in the western world.

I'm seeing that, that the encouraging signs that we're seeing here in the US are starting to turn there too. And that is that some of the stats are coming out for the first time in our nation. There are more. Young people going to church than their parents never happened before. For the first time in our nation, there are more young men going to church than young women.

There is this stirring and this realization and this hunger that God brings purpose, that he brings peace, that he brings, that hope that he brings that joy that's indescribable and full of glory. And so because of that, man, I, I, we're seeing some phenomenal things, but it's, it's one of those questions, are we, is God allowing us to influence that?

Or are we seeing the results of it? And I think it's both. I, I think that that what God is doing is just so encouraging. And then, I mean, the, the statistics over the last six to eight months have shown those things that I just mentioned, and then you backtrack to when we had an assassination of a very faith forward.

Individual. Yeah. And people are starting to ask questions that they've never asked before. Like, here's a guy that I respected. I didn't even know why I respected him until I started to pay attention after his death to his life. Yeah. I've heard a lot of that. I respected was his boldness and his courage and his faith, and people are saying, man, I want that.

And so we're, we're seeing tremendous results. I mean, numerically, they're up. Last year we saw just over a million people come to faith. Right now we're on track for about 1.7 million for the year. But it's, it's, it's pretty phenomenal what God's doing. You mentioned something that I wanna share for all the people who, who aren't believers and even some of the struggling believers.

You said a word there, peace, and you said Prince of peace, and I want to emphasize, what Jesus said, peace says I give you not as the world gives you. 'cause I know a lot of y'all out there are chasing after peace, but it's grounded in a worldly sense and you're gonna find a very different kind of peace with Christ, a peace in in hope and reassurance of the future.

I heard a, I was at a young men's Bible group the other day, speaking of young men, and it is beautiful because one of the guys was mentioning like. I've never seen so many people in their twenties. When I first started this group, there was like maybe three of us who were, less than 25.

And now looking around, there's so many people who are, are young, but one of them said anxiety is just having trust issues with God. And I, I, I really like that quote. Put it forward, produce straightly there and yeah, I know a lot of people. It's interesting 'cause I, I'm one of them as well. I had seen clips of Charlie Kirk, on social media before just clips here and there, a lot of them taken outta context. Some of them good, some of them, kind of twisted a little bit. And it wasn't until after his death that now his, his stuff is obviously trending a lot more. And so I've gotten to consume more of it and, it is really sad. It's sad. I regret I didn't discover his content sooner and maybe go see him speak because at least on the faith-based side, it, it has been very beautiful and I think inspiring to see someone live. I mean, I know my Canadian minister friends were talking about this is one of first times in a long time that they seen gospel and mainstream media, with the memorial services and just conversations around that and.

It's it's, it's sad. And, and what, what were your thoughts? I mean, not to be political, but I mean, for me, my heart just truly weeps for the Catholic school shooting. I, one of the thing, I've done episodes just on school shootings, and that always breaks my heart. That these children who have done nothing wrong, especially, I mean, these are children who were praying.

I mean, that just, I lament over that. Yeah, no, I mean, there's evil in the world but you know, I think it's John one five says that light has shined in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it. Mm-hmm. And a couple days ago, the Lord laid that on my heart. It's, it's true. Light shines. I mean, darkness is there.

But the reality is that God is bigger and he's better than the devil is bad. But it's like anything, whatever we stare at looks bigger. So if we step back and take the problems of this world and we compare it with the bigness of our God. We we, if, if we, if we stare at the problem, that is going to be what consumes us.

But if we step back and say, man, look at how big God is. That little thing over here that bugs us. There's a, a couple scriptures I, Lord just had me been, I've been meditating on just some of the truths of scripture that most even new believers are aware of. And in, in Isaiah chapter 40, it's a very common pass of scripture, but it says, do you not know, have you not heard?

The Lord is the everlasting God, the creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary in his understanding. No one can fathom. He gives strength to the weary and increases the power. There's times, and I have to go to God and I said, God, I need that. Give me some of that. I need strength because I'm weary.

Yeah, I need power to face whatever's coming my way. And then it says, even used grow tired and weary and young men stumble and fall, but those who hope in the Lord, those who fix their eyes on Jesus. Those who, who, who are obsessed with him, those who realize he's their strength and he's their protection and he's their provider, but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength.

They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint. I know there's a lot of people, and a lot of people talk about the anxiety and the depression and the, and the, and the, just the overwhelming heaviness of the world. I believe this is one of the antidotes for that because it says that if we hope in the Lord we will renew our strength, we will soar.

On wings like eagles, we'll run and not grow. We we'll walk and not faint. People my age always look at me and say, Sean, you're running too hard. You're gonna burn out. And I've never, ever come close to feeling like, man, I. I can't do it today. And I really think it's because he is my strength and I've kinda locked into that.

So if, if somebody, the listeners are sitting there saying, man, I just, I, I need a dose of encouragement. I, man, it has to come from a rhythm of falling back in love with Jesus, refocusing your attention on Jesus on a daily basis where you just draw away and say, God, I just, I'm gonna pursue Jesus. I know that the result of that is I'm gonna get courage.

I'm gonna have more strength. I'm gonna be able to run and do what you've called me to do. It's, it, it just, we, that's that's something that a lot of people, I think, neglect because they want God, they go to a service and say, God, touch me. And God's saying, in, in your personal sanctuary, in your bedroom, in your, your living room, wherever you engage with God, let me.

Touch you in that space. And that's where, where a lot of that the, the things we crave come from. You talked about, taking a step back and for me the greatest reminder example of that and what always reassures me and helps me do that is obviously every young man's favorite book, the Book of Job, because.

God took a big step back with, with Job. He said, look at the whole universe. I mean, he really gave him the lay down of, look at all the things I'm operating right now. And I think that is just such a humbling perspective that for me, I always love and I think, I'm glad you mentioned Isaiah, 'cause that's a great segue into one of the things I wanted to say is there are a lot of people who.

Looked up to Charlie Kirk and, and even other leaders in, the, the faith world and with his assassination, I think some of them are panicking, like, who's gonna take that spot? But I wanna remind people, because you said Isaiah, when King Uz Isaiah died, I mean, imagine, and I, I'm gonna borrow this from, from Philip Anthony Mitchell.

He said, Ima, that would be like if you had a president and you were 20 years old. You get a president in office and when you were seven in your seventies, that president was still there 52 years, right? When King Uzziah died, the whole kingdom was like, what, what are we gonna do? This guy has been a, a, a, a pinnacle of, of the leadership and of, or kingdom.

But when King Siah died, what did Isaiah see? He saw God sitting on the throne, not just any vision of God, a glorious vision of God. And so what I say to people is. As Charlie Kirk steps off that stage in, in, in that chair that he was speaking in, I want you to see God there and know that God is there. It's, it's not about the people don't idolize, these people, don't make them icons or celebrities.

We are all servants of God and. I want you to really see God behind the man who is speaking and Mr. Dunn, before we get any deeper, I'd love for you to share, I mentioned your work in suicide prevention. I want you to tell us a little bit about that. I know last time we spoke you had a variety of different links and websites and programs going on.

What is that looking like nowadays? Yeah, so I, I would actually say this, we're not, our focus is not suicide prevention. Our focus is introducing people to Jesus. However, we realize that if you don't talk to people about their crisis, you don't get to talk to 'em about Christ. Mm-hmm. 'cause their obsession is not getting to heaven.

Their obsession is getting through the day. Hmm. So, so yeah, so I mean that's, that is the that's the challenge of the day is talking to people about their pain points. And so, we have figured out how to market in that vein. Whether that's. On different websites through, through social platforms, even in the gaming space now.

But so our, some of our messaging is we have some that are very Jesus God centric, like jesus cares.com, Jesus changes everything.com. We have God likes you.com and I have, I've had people my age push back and say, God doesn't like you. God loves you. You, the messaging is wrong. And what we've learned is that God loves you is almost white noise to people.

They're just so, 'cause God's love, he has to love me. And so they say it and it doesn't sink in. Mm-hmm. But for some reason, God likes you is counter to their understanding and counter the culture. Wow. And so that's been one of those. But then we also have the ones that are more felt need. We have, I feel broken.com.

We have, do I Matter? We have. Matter we have, what's the point? So that talk about purpose or identity or some of those things. We have about 18 different messaging campaigns that we use that we, we ra we, we are a nonprofit, so we raise money not to build an organization, but the money that comes in, the majority of it goes directly into taking those messages for I feel Broken or jesus cares.com and getting it in front of people who will not walk into a church.

And just trying to let them know, Hey, God's pursuing you. God cares about you. God adores you. And so, and then we invite 'em into a conversation again, very few people other than scripture, I would say very few people's lives were changed because they pursued reading a book. Very few people found a self-help book and it changed them.

Most people, it started with a conversation, somebody who would listen to them because when you listen to somebody, their wall goes down. If you come and talk at somebody, their wall goes up. So you listen to 'em was down. And then you have the opportunity to encourage, to inspire, to help, to bring hope, to point him to Jesus.

That's what we do. And, we're on, I mean, God's our, our impact keeps growing. I mean, we, it's amazing. They say that the average church in the US sees one person a year come to Christ. We're seeing 4,700 a day. Our efficiencies, our cost per commitment is one of the things we measure. And it says that in, in in the US it costs over $35,000 to see one person give their life to Christ in a church setting, is what they say.

And the first six months of the year, our number was $2 and 69 cents, which is crazy. Wow. Then even the follow up, people say, well, how do you know that they really meant it well, right now we're seeing about 40% of those who make a decision for Jesus actually taking a step that we can measure whether it's a 21 day get to know Jesus challenge or joining our online community on discord called chasing Christ.

So there's, there's a lot of really encouraging things going on right now.  One of the things I talk about that I think you kind of hinted on there that I just wanna mention is I, the book of Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite books. The first time I read it, it actually made me hollow and numb for a few days.

It was like, what is, I mean, man, it is just a pretty somber reality checkbook. But then when you pivot and hone in on the message at the end. It, it revitalizes you, to, to serve and glorify God, purpose of life. It, it makes your life pretty simple. And so when people ask me what's, what's the purpose of my life?

I tell them, read the end of Ecclesiastes. But in that ending right before it says that this, it says something very interesting. I'm gonna paraphrase here, but it. Of the reading and writing of many books, there will be no end much study worries to mind pay, not to all these wise sayings. You were here, but the ones here basically to summarize the way I interpret it is.

And the way I explain it is we have the book that answers all the questions, right? We have the Bible and you mentioned people are reading all these self-help books and all these different discovery books and, and they're good to a degree, but we always need to focus back in on the Bible. Even the Christian books that are rooted in scripture, they should be a, a compass pointing you toward the Bible.

They shouldn't be a substitute for it. And I think conversations are an important beacon pointing towards the Bible. And that's one of the things that has really frustrated me that I, I'm trying to encourage is so many believers I meet have not read the Bible and we need to generate interest in that.

And what I wanna encourage is everyone is different, right? And so that's why you have so many different approaches. And mine personally is actually a bit unique by taking some of the. True uniqueness of the Old Testament, these stories that people wouldn't believe are in the Bible because so many people get this upfront.

Like you mentioned, so many people, especially young women, have heard the message, Jesus loves you. Jesus loves you. I bring a message from from the Old Testament and they're like, what? That's in the Bible. I want to know more about this. They never taught this in, in summer school, Christian camp or anything.

And then I, I expound on it. Right. And I don't just share it to, to highlight a, a story. I explain the meaning within the context of the whole testament, within the context of the whole Bible and of the glory and promises from the Old Testament to the New Testament. So if you're feeling frustrated with getting people to a church, with getting people to read the Bible, if you are feeling frustrated, we just talked about.

How difficult it is to get to someone to convert in these classic settings. You might have to try a different approach, whether that's the wording God likes you, or whether it's highlighting a different angle of the Bible that is still rooted in scripture. I really encourage everyone to try something different.

Everyone is unique. Some people need a, a, a stricter message. Some people would need a more bubbly, lovely message. The Bible has both, right? It's all about just making sure it's in the right context and explaining that the overarching picture. Yeah. Well, you hit two things there. I wanna, I want to applaud and, and emphasize one is.

You, you transition from, we need scripture in our life to use scripture to share truth and hope. Let, let me start with the first one. It, and I've made this in, in my speaking ministry for years. I've made this it, you will never grow aggressively spiritually if you're not reading scripture. Amen. I don't care how many podcasts you, you watch, I don't care how many influencers you engage with, I don't care if you listen to the right music.

It's a portion and a piece, but it's, it's, God's word is, is what comes alive inside of you. That his word is living and active. It is sharp. It, it brings light and hope. And so, it, it is really sad to me that so many people. That, that claim to be Christians just don't engage with it. It's, they, they, it's like an appetizer that, hey, they, you walk past the candy jar and you just pop one.

Mm-hmm. But it's, and, and they can versus of the day, why are they struggling? Well get into it, spend time. And the thing is, is you will fall in love. Because it is so full of truth. The, the second caution I would get before I transition to the other piece is don't read it just for other people. That's actually one of the, the things that, that, that makes me sad is they say only 13% of pastors read the Bible when they're not preparing a sermon that says to me is they're reading scripture because their congregation needs a word from God.

But they're not reading scripture because they're saying, God, speak to me. I need you to speak to me. So make sure that we never fall into that that, that mistake of I'm reading it just so I have the knowledge so I can give it away and so I can influence. No, you need to read it 'cause it gives God access to you.

Amen. This, but in, in regard to what you said about other people, it's so true. It's God's word is it? It, is, it, it never returns void. In Isaiah 55 11 it is powerful and effective. It accomplishes its purpose. It will not return void. So, and, and the Holy Spirit is so good at leading and guiding exactly what you said.

Some people need, some people need a kick in the butt. Some people need an armor on their shoulder. Some people need to be told, you know better, dude, come on. Yeah. You are rebelling against God and some people need, man, I know you failed. God's with you. And he's, he's, his forgiveness is there. It's time to just pick yourself up and go.

And so the Holy Spirit kind of, brings more ability and more understanding. He, he gives nudges. One of the, the core values we have in our, in our ministry is we say we're spirit dependent because we're not smart enough to do anything without him. And be effective. So learn to rely on that. Learn to rely on the fact that God will speak and inspire and, and nudge you in the right directions.

Yeah. It says to keep my word hidden in your heart and to meditate on it day and night. And so, like you said, I love the appetizer or the candy jar example because most people have a verse of the day, but they don't have a chapter of the day. They don't have a book of the day. Right. They're not going into it deeper.

I, I, yeah. I love some, I've heard a saying to some people, Jesus is just a name on a bracelet. Or the scripture is just a quote in their Instagram bio, and that's truly sad. I watched the guy, he went around and he quizzed, he got a list of people on Instagram who had bible quotes in their, in their bio, and he asked him, what does it mean?

And most of them didn't even know what it meant. They didn't even remember what it meant. And that to me was the, was the saddest part. And I think it's so important, like you said, to, to be reading it, to digesting it. And one of the things I talked about in, at the time of this recording, I dropped a sermon this morning about cavities as a physical manifestation in a subtle symptom of sin.

And one of the things I talked about near the end of the sermon was that sin. Has become such a taboo topic because of church hurt, because of legalism, because people are like, don't talk about sin. That's fear mongering. That is, that is evil because people have weaponized it before, but I said, sin cannot be excluded from the conversation of the gospel.

True. Yes, Jesus loves you, but. Yeah. What's the point of Jesus loving us? It, it comes back to sin. It comes back to accountability. It comes back to forgiveness, right? Sin cannot be excluded from the conversation. You can't just focus on this happy-go-lucky side effect. Yes, there is hope and reassurance in life, but you need to understand.

What is the opposite of that? Why do we need that? Why do we have that? Why do we pursue that? And I think it's so important, people have really shifted away. People are scared to talk about hell, to say that no, God is a God of love. So that there is no hell that was just fictional, that was just made up by Old Testament writers.

And, it, it boggles me, those, those conversations. To believe in Jesus is to believe that the word is, is. Breathe with God's life into it that the scripture is real. Not the parts you like, not the ones you want to pick and choose. Not just the New Testament, not just the Old Testament, all of it.

The whole Bible together is one continuous important story. And even the parts about sin are true. Yeah. Well, again, if, if we don't communicate to people that they're separated from God because of sin. Yeah. They don't know that they need a savior. If we don't tell them that there's, there's something horrible waiting for them, which is hell, they don't know that they need to be rescued.

And so there is that. However, I would, I would say to balance that because you, you get people who go both ways. You get the Yeah. The people who are so grace and never mention sin, and you get the people who pound on the sin. Mm-hmm. Lemme, lemme say this. If somebody hears more about what they're doing wrong than they hear about God's love and compassion, mercy and grace to save them, then, then we'd missed it.

It has to be, it has to be both and, and because again. I, I, I heard about a church. The family that I know was looking for a new church went and enjoyed the couple church services, took the pastor out to eat, and he said, yeah, I, I, I don't talk about adultery. I don't talk about sexual sin.

I don't talk about, because there's people in our church that are going through those things and they chose not, okay. That's not where we're gonna go because, not because we love people who talk about sin, but because again, if, if, if you're talking about the kindness of God without talking about the work of Jesus on the cross.

And why he had to go to the cross, why he suffered, why he sacrificed. If we don't talk about that, then it, it's pe People are just, going through life without the full message and and they're gonna experience death unless something changes without the full the, the full medicine or the full solution that they need.

For sure. And I know last time you were on the show you shared a testimony story about you were just out and about, at a restaurant and you ended up praying with a waitress and Yeah, she felt the physical presence of God. Yeah. In the past year, have you, been able to do ministry work just out and about as well?

Do you have any amazing stories to share? Yeah, well, always. I mean, again, if, if you love Jesus and your eyes are on him. He will inspire you in you a compassion for others. And so as you pray and you say, going back to Isaiah, here I am, send me God, here I am. Bring me opportunities. God, here I am, use me.

However, you then become that contagious Christian that heaven watches with. Interest and the devil tries to shut up. And so I, I, yeah, I was actually in Roswell in New Mexico earlier in the year and met a very interesting server. And people always say, why do you have so many conversations with server?

Because I like to eat I travel a lot, and it seems like every, every conversation I have with people is around Emile. And so this gentleman walked up to me, he was 29 years old. His name was Jacob, and before we sat down, he introduced himself. As a server. He said, hi, my name's Jacob. I'm looking forward to serving you tonight.

Immediately caught off guard that, I mean, that's rare. And so we started having a conversation with him and just trying to look for opportunities and, and I could tell based on tattoos, he, he had some understanding of God. He had the three crosses of calvary on his, on one arm. But we know that not everybody who.

Has the arch or right where the artifact believes what we believe. And so as he came back and it was, it was, getting probably 45 minutes in into our interaction with him, I said, Hey, tell me about that one. And so he started by telling me about this tattoo. He says, this one's about my.

Grandfather. He said it's to honor him. He taught me how to be a man, how to take care of my family, how to provide. He says, as a matter of fact, he gave me the idea that I need to have four different income streams so I can make sure my family never lacks. And I looked at him and immediately I, I, you identify the Holy Spirit, that nudge, like I identified that what his goal was, what his felt need was.

And so I looked at him and I said, I get the impression you really wanna make a difference. You wanna live a life of meaning, you wanna leave a legacy. He says, I absolutely do. And I said, where's God play into that for you? And he said something fascinating to me. He said seven years ago, my first child was born.

And he said, when I was in the birthing room, I had an epiphany and I realized there has to be more. There must be something bigger. And so he said, seven years ago, I determined I was going to figure out who God was and what he wanted for me. But then he, this is the interesting part to me. Then he said, but I've never been to church and I've never picked up my bi a Bible.

I mean, that's so crazy to me because if people in my generation woke up one morning and said, I gotta figure out who God is, I gotta figure out what he wants for me, the two places we would start would be, we'd go to church or, and or we'd read the Bible, but he never had, he had asked friends and he had gone online.

Well, anyway, I was able to transition that conversation with him and say, Hey, listen, I said the God who you are seeking is the one who created you. He knows the best outcomes for your life, and I want you to know he wants you to live a life of purpose and meaning and legacy too, but you're gonna figure it out much quicker if you walk with him.

Because he, he sees what's coming. He knows what's in your past, and so was able to take the gospel and share with him about the fact that, Hey, God wants to be close to you. I was able to share with him, but there's this separation. You want to be close to God, but you haven't figured it out yet. Right? And he goes, no, I haven't.

I want to. And I said, you know what creates that separation? He said, no, it was sin. And so I explained the, the principle of original sin and how that impacts all of us. And even though we're good people, we all have sin in our life. And because God's God's standard is perfection, we can't meet that need, that there's a penalty for that sin.

The wages of sin is death, and somebody will pay for that either through separation from God for all of eternity, or Jesus did it all for us in our place and was able to pray with him as he gave his life to Christ. In that, that thing, but it, it is that, that just showed me the condition of many, many people.

Yeah, they want to be close to God, but they don't know how, and unfortunately they're not going where we wish they were going. They're not showing up in church and asking their questions and they're, many of them are not picking up the Bible, so they're waiting for us to cross their paths. They're waiting for.

Us to start a conversation with him because that guy isn't gonna walk up to every person he's serving and say, Hey, do you know God? Can you tell me about him? He's waiting for a Christian to say, Hey, I know God. Let me tell you about him. The young people in our na, actually, people in our nation, they're waiting for somebody to introduce him to the God who makes this makes sense of the chaos in their world.

There and then as, as we, we introduce them to to Jesus, then it takes care of everything else eternity, but also what's going on in their space today. It reminds me, you and I conversated last time I mentioned that I have a intellectual curiosity and so with my journey of faith, it was actually not in seeking of God, but in wanting to know more about these supposed antichrist and, and, and I had all these different things.

I had heard about this antichrist and I said, I need to know more about this. When I asked around about, I've got so many different mixed answers, I said, all right, I'm just gonna read the book of Revelation and see what it says there. And then from there I said, all right, let's, let's read the New Testament, because that's a precursor to the revelation.

And I said, well, I probably should read the Old Testament too. And that was the first time I read from front to back the Bible. And that changed my whole world. As, as a kid growing up, even as a man of faith, what I would do is. I would just read random parts of the Bible, and you know what? That's good if you've already read it from front to back.

But having never read it front to back, that first time I did that, when everything connected, when everything, if you knew how many connections there were in the Bible, I mean, it was beautiful seeing this whole story, knowing why Jesus came when, how many people predicted, Jesus arriving. It was the historical context in, in the, the precedent of the Old Testament changed my life.

But it was all because when people in the internet failed me, I said, well, I just gotta go to the actual source, the bible. That, that kind of, you reminded me of that, but so many people, like you said, are just going online or, or asking people, but we need to go to the source itself. Yeah. And so it's so important.

If, if you have questions and you, you, you want answers, it just it, it, it blows my mind. And I think, like you said, they're just asking people. But if I needed something to be explained to me that was, let's say, some really complicated scientific theory or something that required a lot of education, I wouldn't just ask my friends, what, what do they do?

I would go to a lab and talk to a scientist, or I would read a book. About that kind of topic, right? So if you have these big questions of faith, I'm saying not to not ask the people around you, especially if they're Godly people, but. The pastors, the churches, the bible, those are all the prime sources that have spent so much time learning this and, and can really sit down with you and, and give the breakdown.

And I think it's so important that we always go back to that. And Mr. Dun, what is the future looking like for you as you continue as God continues to expand your, your ministry and your work and touch more lives? Well, let me, let me hit on when you were talking, it reminded me when I was in college my favorite class was, or, or one of my favorite classes was called the Sur Survey of the Old Testament.

And one of the things that we had to do in there was there, basically Jesus is represented on some level in every book of the Old Testament. And we had to find, find him. And that was fascinating to me that in, in Genesis two. Jesus is referenced not by name, but by what he was going to do if you, and you can find him in every one of those.

So it is, people who separate out Old Testament, new Testament completely, they miss that connection that you're talking about. And I love it. I love, I love the Old Testament. You can learn so much. Oh, yeah. Even about real life and how we're to respond. When I was, when I was growing up. Hopefully this isn't redundant.

I don't remember what we talked about as much as you do from our last time, but when I was growing up the Old Testament was a struggle because it was history and I wasn't a big history buff. And somebody challenged me one time, he said, whenever you read a story in the Old Testament, look for three things.

He said, look for what is God trying to do. Look for what is the devil trying to distort? And then look for man's nature. And what he said is, if you look at every story in scripture, you'll find at least two of those three, and you can learn from it like Dave and Goliath story. Everybody knows what's God trying to do.

God's trying to, to show that he's bigger than any obstacle that you face. What's the devil trying to do? The devil's trying to intimidate you into not taking action to try and get you to cower. What's human nature? Majority of people were pulling back. They were, they were running away. Not just once, but twice a day for 40 days, 79, 80 times they were pulling away.

That's human nature. Most people lack courage to face the challenges in their life. But then all of a sudden, there was one guy who had invested in himself, in his faith to where he stepped up, he saw Goliath. He wasn't even remotely intimidated. As a matter of fact, he was ticked off like, how dare you come against my God.

It's because he had spent the time to let God build him and shape him and mold him and sculpt him when he was alone on the backside of a desert tending sheep. And so when he stepped up to the obstacle, he's like, oh, this is nothing. My god's got this. So, but what, what? When I started to read Old Testament stories like that, I'm like, oh, I tend to be, I tend to lack courage in that situation.

Oh, the devil is just trying to intimidate me. It's, it's like when, when you're, when you're facing a bully, if you realize this guy has no power, he's just trying to scare you, it emboldens you. It's like, man, what a jerk. I'm not gonna let him push me around. That's, that's what you read when you read the Old Testament that way.

It just really started to open some things up to me. 'cause I started to ask those three questions and I saw I saw at least two of those three things in every story. Yeah. In, in that sense, I am an Old Testament enthusiast. I love studying Hebrew and this and that. And I get, I get teased at some of my Bible groups.

They'll, they'll say, today's reading is from, first God, or, or something like that. And they'll be like, Mr. Whiskey, that's in the New Testament, just so you know. Like if you've never heard of it. And I'll be like, yeah. But yeah, for me. I, I, I see it as the New Testament is all about. What I like about the Old Testament, you kind of hit on there, is the relatability.

There's a lot about human nature, and I think it's important. You see, you're like, wow, I really am like King David or like Jonah, or like someone, and you look at their, their actions. And for me, I, I love. It's very convicting for me. Yeah. It's a, a story of conviction. It is a story of these people failing over and over again and God chasing after them and chasing after them, and it just.

It breaks my heart and it, it really for me, people say, oh, the Old Testament is, is, is judgment and discipline is scored. The, the Old Testament is a love story where, where God loves us unrequited and we keep breaking his heart, so I think it's quite the opposite. People will say, oh, there's no love from God in the autism.

The whole half of Ezekiel was saying, I loved you when you were alone and naked and afraid and had nothing. I dressed you in nice clothing and drooling and gave you everything, and you went and became a prostitute with what I gave you to other people, to idolatry. It is a heartbreaking love story on God's behalf.

So I think people who, who haven't read it, who just know these, you know these hot topic stories that they learned in bible camp, like David verses Goliath, like Sodom and Gomorrah. Oh, that's not very loving. You gotta look at everything before and after it. People know Jonah. Yeah. The guy who got swallowed by fish.

That's not even the, the point of the story, the ending, the conversation with God after the, the pardoning of Nineveh where he's angry and he's sitting outside and God says, what is mind is mind, that was the whole point. That's not what they teach in, in, in Bible score, these little stories. They just say, oh, there's a big fish and Jonah's inside the fish.

That that isn't not even the point. And so many people focus on just like. Even with King David versus Goliath. A great story. It's a beautiful story, but I tell people about stuff King David did after that, and they're like, wait, that's, that's the David who defeated Goliath. He, he did what? And he really, I'm like, see, it's you gotta, it's.

A lot of people treat the Bible like social media. They just view all these highlights. Mm-hmm. They don't read the whole caption. They don't get to know the story behind everything. And I think it's so important that we read it and, and that we, we study it. Like you said, old Testament can be rough, especially some of those genealogies.

But I love how you said look for these things. I tell people, I mean. A lot of people, I'll, I'll start them if, if they're, if they're like, I can't read it from beginning and I love to start people in Daniel and, and and, and sit down and go over prophecies and stuff like that, or, my favorite books in the Bible are not people's favorite.

Jeremiah, Ezekiel, all, all my favorites happen to be super long ones that people are like that many chapters, no. So sometimes I'll start them with Jonah. Like I said, it's only like four pages long and people only read the first page and a half. But yeah, I think it's like you said, you can find in that the story of Jesus Christ all the way back to the beginning, El him well and people who say the Old Testament's boring, read it too fast.

Yeah, because it's not written as a novel. It doesn't paint pictures of the characters as well as a novel does. But if you slow down and you think. That four page story, there's more context there. Oh yeah. There's more humanity there. And I mean there's everything that we love cinema for novels for. Is there, if you look, I mean, if you like shock and awe action.

It's, there we're, I mean, if you, I mean, there's, there's gore there, there's stuff there that would be absolutely rated R based on the blood and guts of stuff. And, some stuff you have to kind of, you, you can't expound upon when you're preaching because people will be, running for the doors, looking for trash can to throw up in.

But there's just, there's, I I, anyway, we don't have to go there. But yeah, it's, I mean, there's humor. I, I love, I love where s Samson got, his, his wife was manipulated and he said, if you would not have plowed with my heifer, you would not have solved my riddle. He called his wife a cow. I mean, which in our culture is just, it's humorous to me.

Right. So there's so much yeah. It's, there's so much good stuff there. Yeah. Oh yeah. Don't get me started on the humor, my. Favorite would have to be there. There's, there's two parts I have to share in Elijah versus the Baals and, and, and all that. And he says he is, he starts mocking their God. I'll leave y'all for.

To study that on your own. But Sean, I should, I know you know what he says to them. And that's one of the funniest things. And then in the book of Esther near the end, there's, I find it the most hilarious scene ever where the king walks back in on, on the one guy in Queen Esther. And there's an accusation that is just hilarious.

But I think, like you said, people need to slow down and digest it. And I encourage you when you're reading Yeah. Book of Jonah is like four or five pages. But pauses and, and, and research, nineva research to history research, like there is so much contextual information that is just amazing when you research.

When I stopped and researched Nineveh and found out like, oh, this is why Jonah doesn't want to go there. Shoot, I might be in the same boat as him. I mean, when you look at what those people were doing, you're like, wow. So I, I do encourage everyone to slow down. And then I just want to circle back to. What I asked is that we went into the Old Testament, which is move on from the past to the future of crown wire, as well as just you, yourself.

Well, again, the harvest is right and the opportunities are there. And so we're gonna keep running. We're we're we. My board challenged me. They didn't think I was thinking big enough, which nobody ever says that to me. Meaning I'm always trying to conquer the third mountain when I haven't finished the first.

And so we have a plan in place to see up to 10 million people come to faith in a calendar year. And I mean, we know what it would take from a revenue perspective. We know what it would take from a online volunteer perspective. We know what it would take from a messaging campaign perspective.

And so we're gonna keep going. But one of the things I'm really excited about is we're actually taking more people that are coming to faith deeper into their walk. Whereas last year, we were stuck at only 13% of the people who are making a profession of faith. Could we measure, we're taking a, a meaningful step.

We're up to 40% now. Wow. And so that's huge and unheard of in our space. So we are I mean there's a lot of things going on. We, we have, an online community on discord called Chasing Christ that we've kept private up to now, just new believers trying to protect it from people who just want to come in and debate, or people who want to come in and be, yeah.

Be political. So we protected it and we felt like the Lord say, Hey, now's the time. So we're actually gonna work to try and build that community to to about 50,000 or more. I mean, just, that's a, we'll get to 10 and then we'll get to 50. But with that, it'll, we'll have to have authentic small groups in there.

It'll have to be community. Not just content promotion. And so we think that we have a plan in place for that. And there's just so many amazing things. We just started into the gaming space, which is huge. I know a lot of your listeners that are in this age bracket probably know this, but there's an obsession in the gaming community, isn't it?

Diction for many. And like I say, that 44% of people between the age of 13 and 24, they spend 44% of their leisure time. So the time that they're not sleeping at work or at school, they spend 44% of their time either gaming or communicating in the game, in the gaming community. And so we're starting to engage with that with some technology that allows us to, if somebody says this, God real, immediately, literally within a second, we can deliver a piece of content to 'em and say.

Come talk to us. If somebody says, life is so hard for me right now, we can immediately deliver win life hurts.com and invite them into a conversation. So there's a lot of things moving and shaken right now. We're actually partnering. I know you're going to Japan soon. We're, we're going to, we are we're, we're partnering with a couple ministries in Japan because the digital evangelism that we're doing there, we tested it.

It's working really well. So they're, they're the ground game or the air game. Awesome. So we just, a lot of things going on right now that are really encouraging. Yeah, I believe that Johnny Tee is a friend and minister of mine, host of Refuge Freedom Stories, and, he said that he truly believes there's a revitalization going on.

And I, I love it. What I want to caution everyone to be on alert for and to, to guard their heart and protect their heart for is every time. And skip Zi from Bible, from 30,000 foot overview, he shared, every time there is a revitalization in heaven, there's a rebellion in hell. So as we move forward with this growth, the enemy will attack you, right?

He leaves you alone when you're, you're doing things wrong. When you're doing things right. He's gonna come at you harder than ever before. So as we see this revitalization as a society and individually in our lives, I want you to be cautious, be on guard, and lean further into the faith as that rebelling comes against you.

But nothing will come against you that you can't overcome. And as you resist that. God will, continue to be there for you and bust you more and more. So just know that the enemy's gonna try and stop you. He hates to see a conversion. He hates it. Yep. Well, but, and, and I would, that's true.

But actually again, it's like the bully. Whenever you get somebody's attention that that doesn't deserve your attention. It shouldn't, it should embolden you. It shouldn't make you back down. It's like, yeah, what's, what's he gonna do? 'cause greater is he's in me than he that's in the world. Mm-hmm.

There's nothing he can do to me. I mean, we, we look at things like shootings and things, and we say, well, that could happen. Well, true. But it doesn't matter. I mean, it's, are we all in or are we not? We have to ask that question, is my faith worth laying down my life for, and very few people will that actually be asked of them.

Until the very end times, but in, in our, I'm sorry, in Western world. But is it worth it to us? And I think most people who probably listen to your show would say, absolutely. Well, don't be afraid. Don't back down. Stand up, let you know after you've done, excuse me, after you've done everything to stand, stand up because God's got your back.

When you take a stand, Jesus wall, we stand beside you. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Philippians one, verse 21. For, to me to live is Christ and to die his gain. I it, when you look at the life of a believer as a win-win, no matter what. Side of life you're on, whether you're alive or dead.

It that is, that is the type of peace that the world can't give you. And so, Mr. Dunn, I just wanna thank you for your time today and for all your work in the ministry. And I hope that the conversion rate on this episode is pretty good, but for me. Even if we see one soul converted, that is amazing.

And as I've said before, we are planning, and I want everyone to keep this in mind because some people get frustrated when they don't see a conversion. We are planting the seeds of a tree who shade we will never sit under. This isn't about you converting people. This is about God converting people and.

How he uses you to do that, and when he uses to do that and when actual conversion happens, that's all on his time. So please keep that in mind. Don't be frustrated if you don't see an overnight change or an instant change. These things work in God's time. Yep. Yeah. And, and be faithful where you are. If you're faithful with the little God will make you rule over much.

Another scripture says that some plant, some water, God gives the increase. It's the, the results is never, that's never our responsibility. Our job is to plant the water every opportunity that we have, knowing that God can take your faithfulness and turn into extraordinary fruit. Amen. Amen. So again, thank you for your time today and look forward to connecting with you in the future as well and see how everything's going.

Sounds great. Thank you, man. I.