Marathon-Mentality: Addiction Recovery With Dr. Larry Smith

Today, I sit down with Dr. Larry Smith, a retired chiropractor who transformed decades of addiction into a life of endurance, resilience, and purpose. With over 36 years of practice and a remarkable athletic record of three Ironman triathlons and 17 marathons, Dr. Smith shows how physical fitness became a powerful ally in his recovery journey. We dive into his early years in Winnipeg, Manitoba, his experiences as both a competitive athlete and an addict, and the turning points that helped him reclaim his health and future. 

In our conversation, Dr. Smith shares how addiction began at just 11 years old following childhood trauma, and how that destructive path carried into adulthood. He opens up about his struggles with relapse, the inner “voice” he battled, and the life-changing interventions of people who refused to give up on him. Together, we explore how connection, honesty, and recovery programs helped him find lasting freedom from alcohol. 

We also talk about the intersection of fitness and sobriety, how overtraining can mirror addictive patterns, and why proper pacing—both in marathons and in recovery—is essential. Dr. Smith highlights the importance of community, his work as an author with books like Jonnie and Me and Embracing the Journey of Recovery, and his upcoming fiction project that critiques the pharmaceutical industry’s influence on treatment. 

https://www.drlarrysmithauthor.com/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode, a couple of nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And today's guest mentioned two of my favorite topics, addiction, recovery and physical fitness. And then combining them. One of my favorite things to do, though, not an addict, I do go pretty hard into the fitness world and I do work in addiction recovery with other individuals, and a lot of them have found it very helpful.

If you're someone struggling with addiction and you haven't tried pouring that addictive energy. Into the gym. I would definitely recommend doing it. Consult your doctor first if you have any medical issues, and don't get addicted to working out to the point that you overtrain and do that stuff.

But we are here with a man who found a good balance. I mean, I was just very impressed when our guest reached out to me, he said, well, I competed in three Ironman triathlons and 17 marathons. That is impressive. I know a lot of people who do that stuff. They just. Once they do one and that bug bites them, they do another and another and that sounds like a lot to me though.

17 sounds like a lot to me. Maybe in the world of marathons, those people do a hundred and that's not a lot. But we're gonna find out. Dr. Larry Smith, so great to have you here, and could you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Well, thanks for having me, Mr. Whiskey. Well start with where I am today.

I'm 67 years old. I'm a retired chiropractor. I practiced for 36 years in Parksville on Vancouver Island. Was born and raised in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and for the addiction part of the equation. I started drinking when I was 11 and I quit when I was 41. Played sports through all those years.

So it's always been part of my life, but you're asking about marathons and I guess the best way I could describe while I was out there I was doing them, but it's like having 10 pound weights to your feet. You do it, but the body's never quite right because you're so messed up on whatever it is you're ingesting in your body.

So after I got into recovery, and I think you brought up the point too, about doing it too much. I just got out of treatment and, I was told if I put half as much energy into my running and triathlon into recovery, then I would be doing very, very well. However, my peers basically were saying, no, you do too much of this.

You, you gotta stop this. So Larry thinking very wisely, I just found a counselor who happened to be a marathoner. So I got advice from him. Oh, you just. I really ticked off those guys too. But he was right though. You're, I wanna do a marathon. I said, you can't do it this year.

Well, wait till next year. And I did that and he balanced recovery along with the physical fitness and it worked really, really well. And then it just kind of went from there. I started doing things that I never thought I could, 'cause my body was so depleted from the bad stuff I had been putting into my body.

So that's just a, a brief history of, of where I started. And right now I'm not doing any marathons. The body's kind of past that point, but I'm still very active. Be starting master swimming in September and also be playing hockey. And I do a little bit of running and walking as well, a little bit of yoga.

And this morning I was chasing the dog around the yard because we had a discussion on whose ball it was. She insist that it's her ball and I keep on saying it's mine, but apparently since I can't get it from her that it is hers. Yeah, I mean, I'm tired just listening to you saying I'm too tired, I'm too, too tired and old to, to run marathons, but I'm gonna do all this swimming and hockey and all this other stuff.

Like, I don't know, next time I'm actually competing in a 5K in two weeks from now, I'll be my first one. Awesome. In about four or five years. And the last time I ran, I prd, I broke my personal record by almost two minutes. Good for you. So I have a high bar to set. What happened was I, I had overtrained and I almost got a micro fracture, had shin splints, and believe it or not, and I I will say this for some people to try, if you're feeling frustrated with your prs, you're like, I can't cut even a few seconds off my runtime.

Maybe take a step back. I took a step back for a few months, went into it fresh, started training even better than before, and I was able to cut those two minutes off, which is a significant difference a huge difference. And yeah, I was just over training. And like you said, a lot of people have the physicalness but not the mindset.

And then on the other hand, some people have the mindset and then their bodies. Busted up from alcohol or from over training so take a step back and then reassess. And I know it's frustrating. I love running, I wanna run every day. Right now I'm trying to bulk up, gain 30 pounds and I had to cut, I was running for two hours straight every other day.

And I, I met with a professional basically who said, look, Mr. Whiskey, you're on this bulk diet. You're eating five meals a day. You got these protein shakes, you're doing the heavy lifting. But you run so much you're just basically killing all of your gains. And it was really hard. I, I, I, I still run a lot, don't tell 'em, but I still, I still sneak out for runs, but now it's only once a week instead of every other day.

It's for an hour. It's a weighted run at a slower pace. Like sometimes they grow. You gotta take a step back from some of the stuff that you love and reassess how you're doing it. Yeah, I just stay. Yeah, very, very good advice. Like you say, take a step back and two, I had to do that myself too.

You start, you started to get injured. Take take a day off or do something different. Instead of running, do some yoga, do some swimming, something non-weightbearing. There's all sorts ofra strategies you can do, but you sound like a runner, like runners. Never do it. Half measures available us nothing, man. We, we, we, we do it and we have to do it.

And that's why I hear my, even with my body breaking down a bit. I'm still out there and I love it. It's just that it's not where, not where it used to be, so I totally hear you. Well, the hockey, you still get that, like, that thrill of feeling like you're running. See, see, what I do is when I'm not running, I'm on the elliptical or I'm going on top speed on the stair master, like I gotta get, I, I just gotta move.

Like, lifting to me is too static. When you're just lifting weights. Now there, there are some that are more dynamic, right? And there's high intensity training programs, but. I just need to do some kind of form of cardio too, and people are like, well, as long as you get your heart rate up and you can get your heart rate uplifting, it's not about that for me.

It's actually physically moving my body. It's not about the heart. If I want to get my heart rate up, I could just, watch a heart movie or something, I mean, at, I mean, I need to move my body, especially because, and I feel like my generation more than, than most and, and the younger generations as well.

We're very sedentary. We sit all the time. I mean, I'm at a desk all day, so I like to, when I'm free, I try to make up for that, try to move when as, as much as I can. So, yeah, I say all that to say when I'm doing this 5K. And a runner laughs me. I'm going to question to myself now, is that, is that an unc an alcoholic is a functioning alcoholic passing me right now?

Better. I better, I better get step up my game. But you know, let's go back to, actually I did have a question. Could you say where you were born again? Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Okay. Canada. I did not understand what you said and I was like. Trying to figure out what state that was. Canada. Okay, thank you.

I was, I thought that was someplace in America. I was like, man, I must, did they add a new state when I wasn't paying attention? So, no, I was from Winnipeg, but I, on my sports teams, I still cheer for them there. But I'm also a Minnesota Vikings fan because our coach ended up going down there back in the, in the sixties and coaching the Vikings to four Super Bowls.

Well, they didn't win any, but he was probably the greatest, the greatest coach ever, bud Grant. So. Now that I know Canada, I just can't help but think. So when you do your Ironman triathlons in, in those 17 marathons, is it, this is gonna sound stereotypical, is it out in the snow, in the cold or, or you have a nice season for running?

Depends where you are. Vancouver Island, we don't get too much snow here. It's a couple weeks of snow. A year. Winnipeg, yeah. You're gonna be running in snow. No thank you. Yeah. Iron Ironman triathlon we did in Penticton and it's in the heat of the summer. And that was. It can be very brutal. But I did get to Honolulu to do the marathon.

There was in, was in two, 2000 and that was the most awesome experience because we started at five in the morning because it's so hot. Yeah. And I met a buddy of mine down there that I went through treatment together too. And just talking to him is, says something's wrong here. They're singing Christmas carols and, and I'm seeing palm trees that says, this just doesn't add up.

Yeah. But it was the, it was the most neat experience too. And it was done at nine in the morning. I'm going, what? We're, we're done and I've got the whole day. Yeah. Had to get up at three in the morning because it's so hot there. So I guess I've done it in most weather. You can, as long as you are dressed for it one way or the other.

And make sure you bring your nutrition, your water, and whatever it is you're gonna be fueling yourself with. That's, if you don't, you run into trouble. And when you bonk, it's not pretty. Yeah. I have to reference the same joke I made to you before we started recording here. Just like the, the postman, sunshine, rain, or snow, runners will just go and multiple times this week I was out in a rainstorm.

Running with the weighted, vest on and everything, and just out there. Like, I don't know. I don't mind running in the rain. Yeah. Or the sun. So you take nothing up? Not the snow. I, I, I won't do the snow. I, I'd rather do extreme heat than snow, which I know some people were like, I'd rather be cold, but I'll tell you.

That 5K I did where I prd a couple years ago. It was right before Thanksgiving. It was one of those Turkey tro five Ks here in here, in the States, and it was in Charleston. And it was so cold. I could barely move my arms. I had to cross my arms just to warm up. So my runtime was slowed down by I, my whole upper body was just like frozen, stiff.

And I mean, people will say, I'm just a baby. It was like in the thirties, Fahrenheit. But that, that maybe twenties. But I, I just don't do the cold weather. Like I can do extreme heat. I hate the cold. And the idea of my run is being slowed down 'cause I'm so cold. Like, I think if it was a nice hot day, I could have maybe ran 16, 17 minutes that, it could have been a great day.

But when you were in, in Hawaii, there were you on the beach running on, on sand. No, no. This was, where did we start At? Downtown Waikiki Up. Up Diamondhead. It's a different experience when you wiki. Oh man. I just loved it. I loved it. I had just done a marathon six weeks previous, so I knew this was one.

Wasn't gonna be one of my best. I've average at best. And it really tested my, my resolve. So at about 1520 KI knew I wasn't gonna have a, a great time. Says Now what? I won't look at my watch. I'm just gonna enjoy the scenery. And it was just like wonderful people. It's like a big party out there.

There's like 30,000 people. So I'm glad I did it 'cause it was just, yeah. A marathon like no one else or no place else. When you did your marathons, typically, how long was your recovery period as far as like you were sober for a couple days? Was it a couple weeks? Like how bad is it? First time I did it, we were 92.

Undertrained had no idea what we're doing. There was nothing. Nothing going on. We thought we could do it and just show up. We just, oh my gosh, that was the most awful experience going in. And my two of my friends, lifetime running fans, they were about ready to quit after that. And so I said, no, we did, we did it wrong.

And I bought Jeff Galloway's book and how to run a marathon properly. And then six months later. Did another one went way better. But you have no clue. Oh, I can do this. We're, we're, we're young. We're, we're fast. No, you're not. You have to train. But right now there's no excuse. There's so much information out there.

You just have to find what works for you. Build up slowly. But to get back to your question about recovery time, it depends on how beat up you are. I had one where I was really, I couldn't run for two weeks after just. Toast. Yeah. But usually if it's a good marathon, I'm feeling good. I'm out there, give a couple days off, maybe the third day after, go out for a light run.

And then if that's going well, then another day after that I'll, I'll see what I can do. But yeah, we don't do speed work for a while after that. For sure. I think everyone would, it would frighten me to run with you. You're doing the 5K stuff. That would just kill me because it's really big intensity, it's, it's good for you. It's funny you say that because in my mind it's, it's all about scaling and perspective. So to me, I look at people who run a mile and I'm like, I, that's, that's too short. That's, that's too fast. I need to. And then two miles is weird. It's like you can't go too fast and you can't go too slow.

It's like a weird pacing. Five KI, I found is a pretty good pace. I've been going more toward the marathon side 'cause I was running, for two hours straight every other day. And during that two hours I would cover. Quite a while. I didn't have any set distance. It was just run for two hours straight, nonstop.

Right on. Sometimes it was eight, 10 miles, sometimes no more or less. It depends on the day. But it was just about, building up that endurance. And, and definitely I know at some point in my life I'll compete in a, in a half marathon and in a marathon. The triathlon is a whole different beast, which we'll get into later on in this episode because then you got the biking and the swimming most people are like, oh, the run is the worst part. I'm like, that's, that's the best part for me. The swim is gonna be the roughest part. Everyone's different. But I want to go back to when your addiction started and kind of what factors played into you becoming an addict. Ah, so we're talking 11 years old.

Wow. And it's I wrote about it in my book and it is there's. Chapters and chapters on it. I had a six months before I was sexually assaulted by a priest, and coincidentally, six months later I got drunk for the first time. So there might be a connection there, but a lot of things happened When I was 11, I scored my first touchdown in football, first call in hockey, got my first chiropractic adjustment, like I said the sexual assault.

And then one night's, my parents had guests over and they left a bottle of white rum unprotected in the kitchen. I'm going, I wonder what it would be like to get drunk. I said, always, always fascinated by it. And of course in checking to see if anybody's around and I says, okay, so how are we gonna do this?

Look around, take the cap off. Guzzle, guzzle, guzzle, guzzle, guzzle, and was the, was the worst, absolute worst tasting stuff going into my stomach. So immediately I had to take some coke to down it with, but then I could feel this wonderful feeling coming over my whole body and my brain is saying. Oh my God, this is the best feeling ever.

I was so high from zero to a hundred thousand feet in seconds, and I said, this is the best feeling in the world. And it seems for the next 30 years I was chasing after that. It was just so wonderful. I could do anything. I was 10 foot tall. I was bulletproof. I was gonna be a professional. I knew everything.

My parents didn't know anything. You, you, you know how that goes and went down. Had to tell my friends how wonderful I felt. But of course, the inevitable happened. All of a sudden I'm staggering. I'm falling. Well, that's still this, this is still cool. But then I started to get scared. I started to get sick and I had the, the worst experience after that.

'cause I, I bla, I think I blacked out. Came home, threw up on the guest's shoes, went down to bed and I could hear all this yelling, my parents yelling at me. My, my sister's trying to protect me, and in my brain I'm going, this is going from the best day of my life to the worst day of my life.

And. I call it the alcoholic national anthem because I was hurting so much and I basically didn't wanna, I wanted to die because it just felt so bad. I said, if I recover from this, I'm never gonna drink again. And how many times I said that? Right? And that went on, but it was two or three weeks later.

I'm already negotiating. Well, if I could get the good feeling without the bad feeling. Maybe if just have, a couple, but it was never a couple, just one. And I know people can do it. I'm not one of them. Who can you? I I, I hear all about moderate di drinking and I, I guess some people can do it. I'm not one of 'em.

Or if it's not alcohol, the pills that made me feel the same as alcohol because I like the, the opioids and I like also the, the benzos ballium type drugs. 'cause then I didn't have to feel, didn't like how I felt. So if I took these things, all the bad feelings, anxiety would go away. So I wasn't, I the party drugs, I guess where people are getting up.

I never did those in my life. So that's kind of where I, where I started 11 years old and, weekend alcoholic and basically you're hiding it from the parents. You can do it most of the time, get caught once in a while and they don't be stupid, but they don't really know it's a problem until it's already a big problem.

Wow. So there's where I started. That to me it's just, it's shocking and it's not because of how many episodes I've had of the show where people have shared similar stories to the degree of the age I as a as a kid. So I'm, I'm a little different. I grew up with an alcoholic father who. Despite being an alcoholic, always preached that he did not want us to be the same way that he wanted better for us and to never drink alcohol.

And he villainized a lot as he should. And it wasn't until later on in, in my, young twenties that, I had a long talk with a man who was gonna be a monk and served in military with me and eventually. He and I decided that I would try alcohol for the sake that he said, Mr.

Whiskey, it's not your choice not to drink. You live in fear. He said, if you choose to drink once and then never drink again, then you have chosen. But right now you just live in fear of becoming your father of all this stuff you have in your head about alcoholism. Wow. And it will control you. So you need to drink it and then choose not to drink it.

And I told him jokingly. I said, all right, well, I'm making a letter. That holds you accountable if I become an alcoholic and ruin everyone's life. It's pinned on you. I've got your name signed right here. This was your idea. But you know, I drank, I didn't instantly become my father. Now mind you, I work in addiction recovery.

I'm very conscious. I drank. Very rarely is, it is only socially at, at fancy events, and it's only if I'm feeling good, if I'm, if I'm feeling bad, not drinking at all, even if I'm out. With a bunch of friends and they're drinking. If I'm feeling bad, no. I never drink alone, and the thought I have too is like, anytime I'm feeling bad, a lot of music culture, especially, I, I love country music, don't get me wrong, but a lot of their fix to everything is just grab a whiskey or grab a beer.

She left you. Now you're just gonna drink until you're stupid. My mindset is if I am, if I'm ever feeling bad. And I'm like, man, well maybe I should just drink and, and forget about it. I think about all the people who have been on my show, who got divorces, lost their homes, DUIs, went to jail, became addicts, and it's just, I don't really see any benefit to it.

All of that to say is that growing up as a kid, I never even thought about touching alcohol. On the flip side, I've had multiple people on my show, yourself included, who. 11, 12 years old, in fifth, sixth, seventh grade were drinking alcohol. And that just blows my mind to think that children would even think that.

But I don't blame it to the degree that you see adults, your parents, and, and on the television you see people drinking and they're having a good time. I don't think children grasp the negative effects, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, maybe children see the DUI commercials, but a lot of children aren't consuming content saying.

This is what AA is, this is what life is like when it, when it gets outta control. But it just blows my mind because I think about, I see small children, out and about, and I think, man, they're at the age of the same age as some of the guests on my show who started drinking at that age.

And I look at them and I just can't imagine them sneaking. A lot of times it's from the parents, they sneak. Like, I had a guy on the show he was mixing all his sodas with Jack Daniels whiskey or something. It wasn one favorite like 12 years old. Yep. So it just blows my mind, and when you, it's incredible.

When you look, when you see like children out and about, do you ever think like, man, that's when I started drinking. Like, does it bogle your mind? Well, yeah, it does. It is. It's the whole thing. And then I'm, when I'm seeing people out there and I'm trying to be taller, and so that was me. So that was me. Nice.

Nice guy. Nice sc but as soon as you get a few drinks in them, total personality transformation, that's not the same person. And I remember too, is that somebody talked about me, I guess I was in my twenties and he said, well, I know Larry, but he spends half his life drunk and the other half hung over.

What's he, what's he really like? Yeah. It's like no one got to know the real you, which, yeah. And that, and that's the thing. Everyone I know everyone's different. In terms of how much they changed when they drink, would you say you were like a completely different person or you weren't even aware of it if you were Yeah, absolutely, absolutely different.

It just the, I couldn't do anything. I needed the confidence. I still struggle to this day. Social settings. Once I'm introduced, I'm in the setting. I feel very comfortable. I'm kind of like my mom was very quiet. Um mm not un confident, but I'm not outgoing. My dad was more like that. He could, he could work, work the crowd, so that was, didn't feel good about myself.

A couple drinks will fix that. I could only, the problem was it wasn't a couple drinks. So then you go in there and make a fool of yourself and then you have to go home and drink some more because you realize what a fool you made of yourself and then the next morning you remember or you don't remember, then when you do remember you wished you didn't remember.

Yeah. If that makes sense. Of course it doesn't. Yeah, for sure. And a lot of people drink for the reason you mentioned just there, which is the social confidence. A lot of people from especially. Millennial, gen Z, gen alpha, they, they have a lot of alcohol consumption based on social confidence, based on, for, for men it makes, quote, easier to talk to women.

For, for some men and young women, it makes makes them funnier or makes them more confident, right? Yeah. And other times it just makes him completely stupid. And the military had a campaign. And I always laugh. It was Mr. October. Was this fictional character they made and they had posters around the base and it was like, don't be Mr.

October, he got too drunk and spill all, all the beverage or all the food at the party. Like they would have just this posters of this guy rooting every party Mr. October. So we used to joke for friends, like, don't be Mr. October. It was like, it shows him, throwing, playing cards all over the room, dancing on the table, like real drunk stuff.

It, that, that was a funny campaign that I remember was like, don't, don't be a Mr. October, little, little reminder, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then they made a, a woman who was like, miss January. I don't know why they gave them, months of the year for last names, but I, I always remember that.

I'm thinking of Reggie Jackson, the baseball player for Mr. October. 'cause he hit home runs. But that was a good reason. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He said Mr. October there. That's derogatory. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were drinking from, from when you were 11 years old until you, when did you quit again? 41. 41. So 30 years.

30 years. Three decades. Okay. That's, that's a long time. Most of your life, what, what was the kind of turning point, or maybe it was a breaking point or a turning point where you're like, I need to stop, I need to, stop this addiction. I need to turn my life around. Complicated question. I'll try to simplify it.

I, someone dragged me into treatment in 1997. And I really did well with the treatment, but because I had, was wanting to get back to work and I. I put more emphasis on work than on in a recovery program. It took me three weeks before I relapsed, so I was out in Relapse World for the next two years, and it wasn't pretty.

I hung on, I knew I had to quit, but it was just this helpless feeling. If I drink, I'm gonna, I'm going to, I'm afraid to drink, but I'm afraid not to drink. Yeah. Then at the end it's just, I had to take pills to help me to combat the drinking. So it wasn't until I went into treatment the second time, again, dragged in by somebody.

I mean, thank God they took me again. They, they knew me. And basically, this is in the treatment center. I, I just wanted to die. I just, I would never take my own life, but I was just praying, let me go. I can't take this. I feel so bad. And it just, the withdrawal was absolutely. I've been through it several times before, more than several times, and it was the absolute worst feeling in the world.

I was ready to give up and lying in bed, puking my gut. So this young kid to come and talk to me and that was the turning point right there. It wasn't what he said, it was the presence. And he looked at me and said, brother, you're gonna be okay. And I'm going, you gotta be kidding. He was about like 20 years old.

But you know what? I believed him. I hung on to what he said. It's gonna be hard. Just get, get through today, tomorrow will be a little better. You got you. You gotta trust me. And I hung on to that and it wasn't easy after that point, but it gave me that little thread to hang on to versus going down. Okay, I think I can make it through the hour.

Make it through the day. And next day the counselors came in. Okay, you're feeling a little better. Okay. We need you to connect with. Other people here. This is, this is the problem. Once you start feeling better, we're gonna, you, you're gonna go around, you're gonna ask people they, they gave me all these feelings.

Have you felt sad? Have you felt shame? Have you felt anger? You, you, you say what? How you, how you feel with certain incidents and they're gonna share. And I found that was one of the most connecting exercises. 'cause I'm going up to this guy, 6, 6 2 fifties scared me. And we, we shared something intimate there and I thought, man, this is pretty cool.

And then had to, going up to, to a woman and, and saying, oh, here's what I feel shame about. What have you felt shame about? And so it was like a heart to heart connection. And that really, that part there is, okay, so if I start connecting with other people, it's gonna feel a little better. The only problem though, is that we go down the rabbit hole because there's so much stuff that I've been stuffing and it's all of us.

Yeah, we're, we're all the same. This, they call it terminal uniqueness. So my situation is different. No, it's not. We're all the same. We have the same fear. We get angry. We get sad, we have happiness, but once I found that in the group, honest, sharing heart to heart, and that's what I do to this day, I still go, I've got a weekly support group meeting that I go to and I just love going to, 'cause I love the people.

I'm able to share heart to heart and it's, I'm not worried about drinking or drugging at this day, just a matter of. I need to connect and, and I've got a loving partner and a family. It's because I can share. So for me, the, the turning point was yeah, in the treatment center without the young man who basically wasn't what he said.

It was just, it was a vibration from him. It says, you're gonna be okay, brother. And I'm, I don't know how they decided to send in somebody like that, but I'm so happy that they did. You mentioned something that I want to give acknowledgement to here as I, have said, I've had a lot of episodes on the show and what I've come to realize and I don't think there's any statistics for it, but I think they would back me up if there were, I would say 50 to 75% of all recovered addicts didn't seek treatment for themself, but were kind of dragged in by someone who cared about them, and it really.

I couldn't imagine if it weren't for all these people the recovered addict population would just like cut in half or more because so many had people who cared about them enough to stick through them through all the Bs, through all the hardships and take them to a rehab or AA or whatever it was, now, trust me, I've had some guests on the show who were like, Hey. I saw my life was in shambles and I did everything myself. I recovered by myself and that's great. Yep. But a lot of them, most of them, I would say it was actually intervention by other people that saved their lives. And it's just it gives me hope, of, of selfless people, of people who care.

Yeah, because the episode I recorded this morning was the opposite message was like, people are so selfish. People are just so consumed by themselves. Policy makers, lawmakers, social media people were talking about how self-absorbed they are. But here, what I'm seeing is a great amount of people who care about someone more than themselves, more than saying, Hey, because, I've had it with my father who's an addict, he has said terrible things to me.

He has been violent and aggressive and said terrible things about people I care about. He has put us in dangerous situations and you were, I mean, an addict for 30 years. The longer you're an addict the worse it gets, and the worse your behavior gets. So, to all these people who.

Put up through all that. And I'll say put up, because there's a lot, there's a lot that happens. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of empathy for the addicts having worked with so many of them. But going through all that hardship together, I really just want to acknowledge all those people right now because I mean, it absolutely, it saves lives.

It saved a lot of lives. So, I mean, the acknowledgement to the person who brought you in, and it was the same person both times. No. Okay. It's it was a woman the first time and a man the second time, which goes to show even more that, that, there's so many people who, who care and, and, and that's just beautiful to me, and so, I know going back to the very beginning, you mentioned, well, actually you mentioned a book and, and I'll say here, Johnny and me facing the voice of alcohol within, I, everyone's gonna ask, who's Johnny? Because you're Larry Johnny is Johnny X Whiskey. I invented a name, so I, I stay outta trouble.

And it's a voice that basically I had from a young age, and I realize it's a construct of my mind, but it literally talked to me and it told me all you need to do is take one or two. You'll feel better if you feel good, you don't have to drink anymore. That was the big lie. The big lie was you only have to take a few and then after that couldn't stop.

Even after being going on a bender, two or three days in a row throwing up. Can't get outta bed. As soon as you have feeling good, the voice of Johnny would come. You need to just take the one and then you're gonna be okay. So that voice kept on going there. And then when I would quit drinking, it would attack me even longer.

Like sometimes I quit for two or three months and the voice was saying, Larry, you're boring. You're not the life of the party anymore. You need to go out and have some fun. All you do is you study and you do sports. And the ironic thing was I was starting to do a lot better. I mean, I always got through and I always did well, but it was just like the weight of the world was on my back because of I wanted to drink but I was afraid to drink.

It was just, and so this conversation was going back and forth between Larry and Johnny and literally drove me crazy And, it took a lot of help to finally defeat that voice within. I couldn't do it on my own. It's like I say, I have no trouble. People can do it on their own. My hat's off to them. I couldn't.

I, I can't, and actually I'm grateful that I've had this affliction, I don't know if to call it disease affliction or whatever you want to call it, because now it's improved my life because I can be real, I can be authentic and share my feelings. Now when I, went back into practice as a chiropractor after coming from treatment, I was, I think, really good hands to start with and I cared about people, but it was even more because I'd been to hell and back and seeing people.

I remember one of the first people I saw back, they, she had were horrible sciatic problems inflammatory disease and also a mental health problem. So I was actually just looked her in the eyes and says, this is a lot of stuff going on, but you know what? I think I can help you. Are you trusting me?

She looked at me, she says, you've been through this before, haven't you? I says, yes, I have. So are we ready? Are we a team? And that's what it was. That's what I knew. And we're both kind of nervous 'cause it's, I'm coming back trying to get my life on track and there's whispers around, oh, some people know I had been to rehab.

Others didn't. Some, some didn't care. But I found it was that I, I felt shame all the time, but that really helped me become a better practitioner. I cared before, but now I have the experience of going through the pain and once seeing somebody going through that, I'm going, okay, here's what we gotta to do for today.

And they're in so much pain. It says, okay, we're not worried about two months down the road. Can you do this? They say, yeah, I can do it, doc. So that's I don't know if I answered your question, but let's end it there. You mentioned the not being able to do it on your own and getting help, and I wanna say that there's no shame in that and I think some people, some addicts, try to forcibly do it by themselves and end up relapsing or.

Not being able to overcome the withdrawals or harming themselves more because they want to prove that they can do it on their own. And I get that mentality. I, I get it. But I think there should be no shame in if you need help, because addiction is a powerful, crazy thing. I don't think we even understand it all the way, no, I don't know. I don't know if we ever will. Like you said, you mentioned affliction. Does he, everyone classifies it differently. Some people are saying. This and that. I mean, people look at it, is it genetic? Is it nurture? Is it this, is it that there are so many different causes and factors for it, and I think, there should be no shame in getting help to overcome it.

Especially when your life is on the line. Not just your physical health and your physical life, but everything involved in it. Your friends, your family, your work, everything is dependent on your addiction recovery. And so I think if. You need help. And that's why part of the reason I run this show and, and put out all these resources is so people know there are a lot of ways to recover from addiction that people don't know about.

AA and rehab are the mainstream ways, but I've covered ways on my show that are quote, non-traditional and people have had great success with him. Absolutely. I think there should be choice. That's my, my latest on it. I think Show it to everybody. Whatever you choose, if it works for you. For it.

Who cares if it's non-traditional? Who cares if it's, if it's traditional, there's gonna be critics of all of every program. I'm, I'm sure I, I hear it all the time. This doesn't work. That doesn't work. Well, maybe for that person it does work, and maybe for that person it doesn't. Yeah. And, and absolutely. You know it, and you shouldn't even judge.

It's not your recovery. So kind of. Mind your own business to a degree, unless you're gonna be beneficial and helpful. But if you're just saying, Hmm, I don't really like that, that idea, that style, well that's your opinion. It's not gonna help anyone's recovery. So, yeah. And then you also have a book embracing the Journey of Recovery from Tragedy to Triumph with a, I assume it's you on the front cover after one of your many races, correct?

Yeah, that was the my first Ironman in Pentech team. And that was the whole, the whole freeing book with why I wrote that book too. I was afraid of being ashamed. I wanted to tell people the journey because during the journey I had somebody basically try to hold, unless you do this, I'm going to tell everybody.

And I was afraid they would tell, and most people already knew anyway, but it was just holding all, holding that over my head says, Noah, I gotta do this. I did it for myself, but also to, to help others. If I can, can say, here's, here's what's going on. I went through this why, and that's why I took the example.

I went through two people who were recovering. One was from cancer and one was from addiction, and, and the difference was the person recovering from cancer had all sorts of told, everybody had all sorts of help person recovering from addiction. It was. Somewhat secretive. He only told the closest people that this was happening, but we drew along the, the comparisons of how the healing went was very, very similar.

And so it's, how do they say it was a different type of book than the one I just wrote, but I found it was very freeing to write it. And again, it's only my, take on what it took for me to recover, but I was comparing it to another person recovering from another affliction disease. So take these two things together.

There was a lot to learn from it and I refer back to it every so often. So it's was quite it was quite the journey. And at the end crossing the finish line too was, it's kind of, if you have a at, at one, at that moment, life was perfect. You're going through on an Ironman, you're going through.

Every great thing that's ever happened to you. And then also you're going up in a hill, you want to quit, your stomach is hurting, your legs are burning, people are passing you, I can't do this. And you're just so despondent and you go through that several times a day. So took me 14 hours or so to get her done.

But it was like my, my whole life in that period of time was compressed into 14 hours. Every single emotion I went through. And then at the end, oh my god. Arms up over the head and going, right, this is the coolest feeling in the world. And it was just like, I could stop at this moment, be great, and of course life goes on.

But I think to have those types of moments and then of course you're chasing back after and had had to do it again a couple years later. Right, right. I'm not, not realizing all the training that goes into it and you have a hard day at work. Oh, but now you have to go out on your bike for four hours. I think that's, that's a good analogy.

And the fact that a lot of people try to treat what they do as a sprint, whether it is addiction, recovery, a project, whatever it may be. A lot of people look at the short term goals, the short term benefits. They don't wanna look at the marathon mentality because that, like you said, that's a lot of work, that's a lot of hardships along the way.

That's, that's a lot of training. But I think the payoff is so much greater, like you said, that moment where you're crossing the victory line and arms in the air. And I think a lot of people try to rush through their addiction recovery 'cause they just wanna get right back to whoever they were or whoever they want to be.

And sometimes it's not that simple. I mean, think in, in your case, 30 years of, of damage and of change that you have to now. Undo you have to repair, recover, and, and pivot. That's a lot of work. For some people maybe it's only a year, but it could have been a year where everything got ruined in their life, so I think we need to all in, in, in terms of marathon versus sprinting, slow down a bit and actually pace ourselves Absolutely. To finish. Because if you try to sprint the marathon. And then you end up walking or failing out, well now you, you're gonna be finishing way after than if you had paced yourself.

So I think that ties back into, even in the very beginning of the episode when I said, take a step back and analyze your training and, and, and take a breather and, and come back stronger on a, on a lower level that just pacing yourself properly, properly pacing yourself. I mean, that's probably the number one thing any marathon runner will tell you is pace yourself properly.

And you've heard of the concept of negative splits. Yes. As you slowly, even if you're at a, a slower pace, every time you pass someone, they get a little bit slower and you get a little bit faster. And in fact, I'll, I'll, since, since we're here, pivot into running, have you heard of the Jack Rabbit?

No. So I don't, I don't imagine they have it in marathons, but in five Ks, at least in the high school competitions, 'cause the charity runs aren't as competitive, right? You're everyone's doing the 5K just to do, it's for a good cause in high school though, it's a competition, right? You got state regionals different.

I don't know what they, the Canadian equivalent would be, but you've got different levels of competition, right? And essentially the Jag Rabbit would be. Someone on the enemy team, and again, cross country is like you're racing yourself really. But someone on the enemy team would purposely sprint outta the gate as a self sacrifice.

They would sprint and a bunch of the runners would try to catch up with them because it, oh look, that guy's going so fast. We got, we gotta catch up to him. You know that all that ego stuff. And then he, and then he would, stop and then all those people would be burnt out. Oh my gosh. And then their real runner on the enemy team would run, would, would properly pace and then speed up later on.

Right. So it was, it was a trap, it was a decoy, so to speak, to catch a bunch of runners and burn them out purposely. So they called him the Jack Rabbit and that's so cool. Yeah. And, and that would be. I mean, honestly, that's another lesson right there. Don't fall for the jack rabbits in life. These people on social media, you see who are maybe the same age as you, and it seems like they're doing so much more.

Oh, you don't know how much of it is real. You know exactly that. And, and now I can, I I can, I I know the ones are, the influencers are saying yes, and I, this, this is, this is made up. Yeah. And I've caught myself, unfortunately, I just posted about this the other day. Actually, some of the men that I admired that I was, I was getting really frustrated with, with my body my muscle mass and, and my training and seeing the results.

Found out a lot of the guys I admired online and, and more and more of them are getting caught or are on steroids they're doing, yeah. All these different, and there's, I think there's more than ever before different types. Oh, yeah. And same with the, the women chasing after women who had plastic surgery or photoshopped photos, or now it's even worse with AI touching up photos and stuff like that, that Oh, yeah.

Like, well, I, I don't follow that world. I, I'm happy to be authentic. People love me for wrinkles and, and warts and all, because I spent an awful lot of years portraying this image of this mask of. Of what I want it to be. But no, I'll, I'm glad where I am now. 'cause at least what you see is what you get is it's real.

Yeah. I'm not the fastest runner in the world. I never will be nor or hockey player. Not, not the best, but this is me I love my life and I wanna help others to get through it as well. Sure. For sure. And one thing I was gonna say too is you're saying about step back, I think you can need to have a plan every day.

What are you going to do every day to recover? And it doesn't have to be big things, three meals a day. Are you gonna get your sleep, are you gonna connect with others? Are you gonna get the exercise in? And that's what I think is the balance. And it doesn't have to be major. It doesn't have to be major.

Even if the exercise is, a you, you're doing half an hour. Okay, got it done. Did I talk to somebody today? Share my feelings. Yeah. Got it. Good. Did he eat three meals a day? Yeah, because otherwise with me, low blood sugar, I'm still. Three meals a day plus two snacks 'cause high metabolism. And when I do about a quarter of what I did in my Iron Man marathon days, but I still follow it.

Disciplined. You said you were in the military? Yeah, I, I can totally relate to that too. 'cause I had football coaches who were very mil militant, not the same thing, but the fear of God, you, you, you do what they say. And most of the time they were right. But I just found it was kind of brutal. I had in the one cooking class at my high school, we had a teacher who was just like a military RDC, top of her voice, screaming, throwing pots and pans, like giving orders.

Like I, you would've thought she was a, a marine leader or something. But I think she had been a professional chef on some, some prestigious place, and it was like she had to yell and, and, and really order these people around. So she. Brought that to the classroom with her and just like I met plenty of, drill sergeants and marines, who even after they got out, they brought it to their next job or something and it was like, Hey, easy now.

Easy now. This is just. Whatever we're doing, this isn't the Marines, this is just like a casual thing. You're scaring people, exactly, exactly. They can't help themselves. Yeah. Yeah. They say you can take the Marine out of the Marines, but not the Marine, out of the Marine or something like that, and there, there are definitely things to embody from the military. Attention to detail, discipline, work ethic the, the ability to. Work long hours and, and sleepless nights and, and be pretty functional. What I want to ask you, 'cause I, I always ask every author I have on the show, you've got the two books, Johnny and Me, embracing The Journey of Recovery.

Are there any more expected for the future or you think that's it? Or what do you think? I'm glad you asked because I just, my third one just got accepted for publication and it's now in the editing prop process. And this one is the hands up. The hands up. That's, yes, that's, that, that's that feeling.

Yeah. This is fiction. This time it's called 2000 2084, the Oxone Conspiracy, and it basically is about addiction and. What's happened in, in the world to come is that the pharmaceutical companies invent a new drug called Neuro Zone. It's, I decided I would use the Suboxone and Neurontin, combine them together.

I went back to my organic chemistry where dangle dangle a little, what's called an oh group off there. And this creates in, in fiction binding affinity, which erases all, basically erases all cravings to Dr. Drugs and alcohol. So the thing too is they. What they don't tell you though is after five years, if you have a specific gene, you start to get some side effects such as cancer.

Mm-hmm. And also 10% of the people get emotional flattening. They don't have craving. I think you misspoke and said this was fiction. I think, I think this sounds too, this sounds pretty, I don't know. This sounds pretty accurate to to, to the real world. I don't know. And, and, and, yeah, and the kicker too is they ban abstinence based care because we have, we have to save lives.

This is the only thing that works and we have all the studies. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So I really, how do I say, there's a lot of things going on in my mind, but I, my mentor who has passed on, he, he helped me a lot. He had got four years of. Of recovery again too. But he kept on saying, this is Larry. The pharmaceutical industry is hijacking addiction recovery, and I'm for judicious use.

I think there's definitely a place for it. Don't, don't get me wrong, but when you start removing choice. That's the problem. And I'm seeing with funding models, and I don't want to get into a whole political thing, but that's where the book is at too. So we're getting back into the heart, heart connection and they're trying to erase it from from society and I have a lot of characters in there who basically go underground and are still doing it.

So. I really had a lot of fun with, and I even stuck myself in as a cameo. Listen, debating a policymaker who's a chief medical officer, there is Dr. Larry Smith. It, it's, it's, it's a, it's a fan, it's a fantasy. And you don't mention names because there's, there's a lot who are fulfill the role. It just depends where you are in North America, around the world, but the ones in power.

Like I say they're shaping policy and we've got, I don't know, around here, we got tens of thousands of people have done it similar to what I'm doing. Do they ask us? No, because here's what's worked well. How do you know? Because our best scientist, well, as a scientist in recovery, no, but we value, we value lived experience.

No, you don't. Mm-hmm. That's why I'm seeing a lot of that happening. All I'm saying is there should be a seat at the table for people like you, people like me. The scientists people who are struggling, we should all put that together and come up with something. Otherwise it seems like it's patchwork. So that's where I kind of ex explore if but you can tell I've got a little energy behind my voice there.

Yeah, yeah. Definitely passionate about it. Well, you know what, we'll go ahead and have you back on the show once that's officially out and everything, because. I would love to, I know you said it just got accepted, so it'll probably be a little while before everything is, all put together and everything and, set out.

But excited for that. That sounds interesting and a little too real, but I'm excited to read that. And as, as we close off here, what would be your final message for everyone? We're gonna have your website and description below where people can check out your books, your blog, your newsletter, your store, everything.

And then, oh, thank you. We talked a lot about addiction, recovery, and physical fitness. What would be your final takeaway for everyone? Uh hmm. It's about connection, not compliance. There's a lot, there are some people who are complying with what they're supposed to do, but they're hating every minute of it.

And I have to admit, I was like that from the beginning. But it was by following through with people, connecting with people. That is what got me sober from day one. So connect with others, be real, but be careful with who you choose. To share your heart to yeah. Feelings. But you have to do that.

If, if you do that, you will feel better. And there's a lot of different ways to doing it. And then the second thing is there is hope. There is always hope no matter what. People have been through a hell of a lot more things that have happened to them than I have, and they've got through without drinking or using.

And I guess in your field you see it all the time. A lot make it through. Some don't. And some of the ones who helped me the most are no longer here. They died and it's a tragedy, but I can at least count half a dozen people. They saved me when I was gonna go down the tubes, they got me back on track.

So connection. Talk to people and never give up. There's hope. I completely agree. I like to quote something that I didn't like at first when I moved to South Carolina, but I've grown to really, like, they have a saying that it's like the motto of the state and it's on the license plates and it says, while I breathe, I hope, and I've come to really agree with that.

No matter what you're going through, as long as you're breathing and you're still alive, there will be opportunities for change to happen, either good or bad. And it's up to you to take advantage of those. And it's not always gonna be instantaneous. Sometimes it's gonna be a marathon, but as long as you're breathing and alive, there is hope, and it's using that and having that, that will really benefit your life.

That's so awesome. I, I totally agree. Yeah. And I just want to thank you for coming on the show today and sharing what you have, sharing your journey. And next time you come on the show, I want you to share about how your hockey games have been going and if you Okay.

Won any swim medals or anything like that well, I can guarantee you I'll, I'll, I'll be having fun. So I look forward to talking to you to you later, Mr. Whiskey. Okay.