Man Up, Sober Up: Ryan Penley's "Aim Up" Blueprint For Rock Bottom Recovery

Today, I sit down with Ryan Penley—author of Man Up, Sober Up and host of The Next Fix—to map out what real recovery looks like. Mr. Penley walks me through a hard-earned story: early wins, a move to Las Vegas, a catastrophic injury, and a doctor-driven opioid spiral that ends in diabetes, and eventually a coma with blood sugar off the charts. We talk about dry versus sober, why location changes rarely fix addiction, and how faith and a 72-hour Baker Act window gave him just enough margin to start a plan.

We dig into his core message: “aim up” every day with perpetual, incremental progress. Mr. Penley explains how tiny, repeatable wins compound—resetting routines, tracking pain points, and choosing the next right action. We also unpack rechanneling addictive energy into meaningful pursuits like fitness and service. Mr. Penley shares his own transformation (significant fat loss, becoming a trainer) as a template anyone can adapt without turning health into another unhealthy obsession.

For families, we get practical about boundaries that help without enabling. Mr. Penley’s “boots-to-ground” tactic is simple and strong: set a recurring check-in (same day/time each week), show up like clockwork, and keep support on your schedule—not whenever the addicted person demands cash or rescue. We outline how predictable care builds trust while protecting your own stability.

We close with resources and next steps. Mr. Penley’s My Rock Bottom Recovery community on Facebook, his The Next Fix podcast, and his book Man Up, Sober Up all focus on the better end of recovery—purpose, projects, and people. His bottom-line mantra is clear: “Perpetual, incremental progress is unstoppable.”

https://www.ryanpenley.org/

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Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Thrive Alcohol Recovery: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Cups. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And though he is been a hard person to schedule, I'm so excited for today's guest. He's actually probably the favorite host of any show I've been on. I've been on over 30 shows, and, uh, the conversation I had with him, I just, I really enjoyed it, the way he hosted and, and what we talked about.

Um, and I'll put that link in description below if y'all wanna check it out. Talking about boundary setting as the loved one, taking care of an addict, which is something I still do to this day, and it's getting more and more difficult sometimes, but we'll talk about that some other time. The reason I really liked our guest today is I reference one of his social media clips all the time.

He said, why did my rock bottom? Why wasn't it the first DUI? Why wasn't it going to jail? Why did my rock bottom has to be so far down? And in an episode of my show, we talked about how addicts their pain tolerance and their rock bottom. Death is so different than ours, one guess I had said, you gotta let them hit that rock bottom and then some, because for them it's not gonna be enough.

But you know, of course, prevention, intervention, recovery. Today we're gonna talk about Man Up Sober, up here with Ryan Penley, host of The Next Fix podcast, an author and a former addict. Mr. Penley, could you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, yeah. As you pointed out, man, uh, you know, uh, I. I'm familiar with the rock bottle and in my journey I have found it, um, a rather unique perspective of it, and I think it's an advantageous one.

And so this has been become, my mission is to share that that frame. Uh, because so much of our lives is how we frame it. And so, um, even now hearing your description, you know, like I'm, I'm really excited to share some of these, uh, these different perspectives on being an addict and, um, you know, but you know, my life is, has, has been something to write a book about.

So that's what I did. Right. But it wasn't to like. Ever boast. It was, it was a conviction. It was a conviction inside of me. It was something that I feel like the Lord put inside of me is, um, you know, there is no testimony without a test. So I, I had the test part, so I was like, okay, well how do I organize the testimony?

So, you know, that was, uh, you know, both hard parts. Right? You some could argue that the, the test is the hardest part. However, organizing your testimony and getting it out there, that that's no. Take walk either. And so you know all about sharing the message. Uh, and that's what you do. And I'm so grateful that you do it.

Um, and so yeah, man, that's who I am. I'm just, I'm a guy out here, uh, trying to help people that are a few rungs down the ladder behind me. That's it. When you talk about, you know, the difficulty of preparing the testimony, that's something that, you know, I was just asked about the other day, which was, Mr.

Whiskey, when you share about different parts of your story, does it ever get easier? Does it still hurt every time? And we talked about how. The first time you ever share your story, especially very vulnerable parts of it can be very difficult to muster up the, you know, moral courage to speak about it, to relive some of those memories, right.

As especially a lot of addicts wanna, I know in the case of my father, like we mentioned, he hates aa, you know, because he doesn't want to be negative. He feels like AA is negative because he's not able to have the mindset. You know, if I went to aa, I heard those stories. Okay. And that's exactly why we're here.

But he sees it as he just gets depressed, hearing the stories. My wife left me, my son doesn't talk to me. I got a DUI, you know, he needs just that positive talk. And so for some people it can be very, very difficult to, you know, talk about what they've been through. But I'd like, you mentioned the word conviction and that's what your book title speaks to me, especially as a man, you know, man up, sober up, that those, that's a very convicting phrase and, and so.

Why did you choose Man Up, sober up? I mean, it's, you know, you're like commanding, you're kind of really holding, uh, the person accountable. And I, I like it. Uh, some people would say maybe it's too harsh of approach. I mean, what kind of was went into that? Well, it, I, I feel, I believe that so much out of our lives, um.

Is a call to adventure. And I think that this, this is something that's funneled down from the Lord, uh, or power greater than ourselves, however you wanna look at it. The universe, we, we have this calling and so many times that calling is a smack in the face. It's, it's a, it's. Rarely easy because things worth doing typically aren't easy, and so man up.

It is, it can be interpret, interpreted as, as a call out. It can be interpreted as confrontational. It can be interpreted as aggressive. However, I I, I see it as like, Hey, you know, wake up, you know, here, here's, here's your chance. And so it, it, it's short to the point. People typically can interpret it as like, man up.

Like, okay, I got, I gotta snap out of it. You know, there's a, there's a lot of ways that you can interpret it, but the intention was, uh, was the call to adventure. You know, if you wanted to, if you wanted to have like a grand, more grand umbrella of the meaning, it would be the call to adventure. It's like, Hey, it's time to man up.

It's time to, it is trying to buckle down, it's starting to bite down on the mouthpiece. It's time to hit those yard hard yards. It's trying to, you know, let's push a little bit harder. You know what I mean? Because that's what MANUP is not right? MANUP is not like, Hey, it's okay. No, I'm saying you're not okay.

Yeah. But you know, it is okay to not to be okay because you can acknowledge you can be better. That's what it's about. It's like so oana. And get better at wherever you are at. And then take the humility in, in the small steps. So at the beginning, now you've got the recipe for, uh, for success. You know what I mean?

That that's what comes after it, you know? But there is this initial challenge, this initial, you know, man up trying to move forward. What I'll say is if I were an addict, I'd rather my wake up call be someone holding me accountable, saying Man up, sober up than my wake up call being, oh, now I'm in jail. Or Now my wife left, like, like you mentioned, would I rather hit rock bottom, rather be held accountable?

And, and that's not to say most people, people try to hold them accountable and they, and they don't listen and we'll, we'll get into that, but I like that you kind of equivalent. Man up, sober up saying they need each other. And I think that's true because in order to be the best man you can be, you need to be sober so you can perform all your duties as a husband, a father, a brother, a son, whatever it may be.

So I really like you say, Hey man, up sober up. I, I do like that. So let's get into your journey, how, you know, you mentioned, and I mentioned hitting rock bottom and then some, so where. I wanna go back to the very beginning. When did you start drinking? Like, what was the cause behind that? Well, I mean, I, I, I say this often and it seems like I, like I'm taking it like, but it did start off that way.

I mean, it literally was, I had some beers like around a fire in Florida as a teenager and I thought I was funny. Like, you know, in my mind I was like able to talk to. Girls and I, I thought it was a massive success. Right? And so, so I thought in my head like, and all I saw was upside right now. Yeah, you can conjoin that with my family's perspective of alcohol is that there was no downside.

Collectively as a family, every one of us ignored. All of the downside of alcohol and mostly cigarettes. My whole family had smoked. Right. So it was, they, they were, you know, as a team, ignoring all of the downsides. So as a child in this environment, I, it was not even on the horizon that there was anything bad that could ever come from this.

All I felt was like super confident and so, um. You know, um, it, it was at first, that was it, man. I just had a little bit of confidence, but then I, then I got bit by the party bug, right? And so, yep, as I do with most things, I take things to, you know, the pinnacle. I take things to the mountaintop. So where did I go?

I went to Las Vegas. I moved to Las Vegas when I was, uh, 22. I just turned 22. Um, and up until that point I was doing pretty well. I bought my first house for my grandma at the age of 21. I was doing things that were pretty good. You know, I, I had a good head on my shoulders. I was getting an education. I go to Vegas.

And I take the party scene to, you know, uh, the highest point of it and Right. And if you're going to do that, that's where you go, right? That's what you do. And so I, I went to Las Vegas and um, you know, I was there for 11 years and so, uh, anybody that's been or lived in Las Vegas, you know, it has a finite time that you're there.

So people last a couple hours, some people last a decade, but you typically leave broke. And so, yeah, I, I, I did, I guess what you could consider like, well. Uh, but in that, uh, journey, um, I had, uh, been a part of the opioid epidemic, right? I mean, there was a doctor handed me enough pills to kill our anoc. Uh, so while I was out there, um, you know, these, uh, I say this right?

Opportunities. I had these forks in the road, uh, looking back. It was almost like a setup of, of the universe giving me what I was focused on. And it was on the high, right? I mean, it literally gave me what my attention was focused on. It put a doctor in front of me that would give me enough drugs to, I, I mean, I was a, I was an addict, boom.

Just like that. And they sent a, they sent a nurse to my house to show me how to become an addict. It was, you know, it was a peculiar time. Uh, a lot of people felt, um, you know, uh, it felt. Hard because of what our country was kind of doing, what the system was kind of doing as far as narcotics. Yeah. Uh, but that, that was a big fork in the road for me, man.

I mean, people closest to me, uh, in fact, my best friend, he remembers the day that, that they sent a nurse to my house. Right. And so I have. 220 30 milligram Roxycodone prescribed to me. I paid $5 to get all of these drugs on the street. They're $40 a piece. I was getting 220 of them and I paid $5 total and.

I was told, this is your medicine. This is what, this is what you need. So I was telling other people I need this, you know, meanwhile I'm taking pharmaceutical grade heroin. And so not only that, but they sent a nurse to my house and the nurse showed me how to crush up the pills. They, they gave me a device.

They crushed the pills. Right. And then I could put them into this, this tube and I could, I could inject them into my lower intestine. So it was the same thing as like mainlining heroin. Wow. You know, the same notion. Like, and then, you know, I mean my, uh, my, my best friend, he, he was. He was watching me and he said, I remember seeing your eyes and it was, you were gone.

You know, I, you just turned like, I went from like kind of functioning, kind of, kind of still around to. Off to the races. I mean, and that nurse was sitting right there the whole time too. You know, like she was there and he was there and he said, he saw my eyes and then they, now I have the green light. Now I have the tools I need to become an addict.

And it was, it was, it was a hard, uh, like I said, it was a, it was a term for the worst. I wanna go back to what brought you to the doctors in the first place? Well, that was, yeah, that was, uh, I was. And this is a good part about this time in my life is, is. And again, it's the call to adventure. I was doing some cool stuff, brother.

I, I was living in Vegas. I had a good, you know, I was making cash and I was young and I was able, and so I was, I was, uh, snowboarding and four wheeling and doing the like, pretty cool stuff, you know? And so I. Uh, I got into a four-wheeling accident out in, uh, Utah, uh, hurricane City, right? Just outside of Zion, if anybody knows Utah.

But, uh, uh, my buddy ran into me with a four-wheeler and snapped my tibia fibula, um, just snapped my bone. And so, um, you know, I, I was back there holding my, my leg and my leg was like this, and I was looking at it and I was like. I was just, you know, it didn't hurt. That was crazy. Like it didn't hurt. And we were so far out in the desert, it took them hours to come get me.

Um, and they did, they couldn't get me outta the D sand dunes, so I was just laying there. My friends were all there. Um, and uh, so yeah, they, they put some titanium in my body and then, you know, but now I had that, I had that passport, if you would. Right. I had that passport to a prescription, which led me to my addiction.

And so that's what, that's what came next, right? Yeah, I've had a lot of, you are the first person to talk about injecting it into your lower intestine. I mean, that is just, that just blows my mind. I, I've never even heard of that from all the people I've had on my show who have used opioids and, and abused them.

I mean, you're the first to say something to that level. I mean, that, that just shocks me. And how long were you in Vegas for? 11 years. Yeah. And, and they weren't all bad. They weren't all bad. And like that, that, uh, circumstance that I just expressed to you, that most would tell me, you know, I was doing oak, I was doing pretty good, you know, I bought a house out there.

I, you know, my, my, my life was pretty decent. But, um. I would say that most people would say, okay, yeah, he broke his leg. And then everything kind of started snowballing man. And then I started taking on serious addict behaviors. Um, you know, just, uh, things started snowballing out outta control pretty quick.

Yeah. So let's get into that. So you start, you know, using opioids for pain relief and then, you know, the addiction kind of forms. Was this doubled with alcohol on top of it or other drugs? How did it kind of start to play out? You know, ironically, at the time. The reason why that tube was in my lower intestine is 'cause I developed pancreatitis.

And so that pancreatitis had developed into a tumor of my pancreas. And so I couldn't digest food. And so I had this tube that was going down in my lower intestine. And so now, while I wasn't drinking at this, at this point, right, um, the, the painkillers were, were. Taking center stage, right? Yeah. And so then I was going to work and I was, I, I started to steal at work.

I was a bartender, so I was, I wasn't drinking right. So I, that was like my feather in my cap. Well, I'm not drinking and I would tell people I'm sober. I would say that. I would say, I would say I'm sober. And, and, you know, looking back, I was far from that, but, you know, I, I just wasn't drinking alcohol. So here I am.

Um, you know, I, the addiction started getting worse. And now the, the copious amounts of drugs that I was given to by the doctor, that wasn't enough. Right? And so I started try, I was, started stealing at work, um, in order to perpetuate the addiction, uh, that got out of control. So then they fired me. So once they, once they fired me, now I couldn't get the drugs through my healthcare.

Um, so then it was, it started getting real nasty 'cause I didn't have enough money to keep that kind of a thing going. Um, and, you know, I lost my job and, uh, I was losing my house. I was losing my relationships pretty quickly. And I did what everybody, what every good addict always says, well, you know, I'll just change the location.

That's what's wrong. Everybody around me, that's the problem. And so I'll just. I'll just change my geographical location that's gonna solve things. So I moved to Colorado, um, and. One thing I learned about that is that I'm exceptionally good at finding drugs no matter where I go. Like I, I call it alleyway commerce.

Like you've been a cop, you could, well, no, 'cause I do the drugs, right. So you just want me to not, no, you don't want me to be on the hunt. You know, like I try to just stay on hunt other things, I guess. But yeah, I, I was, um. I was, you know, like I said, alleyway commerce was something that I, I could find myself into.

So, but I went to a town of 6,000 people up in Estes Park, Colorado, 6,000 people. And I thought, well, you know, there's no drugs there. No, there's, there's pretty much drugs everywhere if you look hard enough. And so I didn't have the painkillers any longer, and I, I turned my back on everything that I was, that I did have going for me in Vegas, went to Colorado.

But, you know, I brought myself along with me and, and a very un. Healed version, right? So I was still, still not doing any work to get better inside at all. Just thought the, the location was it, right? So I go to, I go to Colorado and then the wheels start to fall off even further, but now my body gives it, right?

So biologically I, I see that despite, uh, being on a feeding tube and all these other things. But I started developing diabetes and so, um. I'm in Colorado and, and I had a couple of visits to the hospital and they're like, you know, you got diabetes? And I was like, no, I don't. And they were like, yeah, you got diabetes.

And I just ignored them and it got worse. And, um, you know, my body really started failing. Um, and people didn't know what to do. So some people that do care, um, they're like, all right. We know he's warrant in, in Las Vegas. Let's, let's send him to jail and he'll dry out so that it's a decent plan. So they, they call the cops, cops take me to jail.

Um, they don't really keep you too long if you're not a real, like a serious problem. So they let me out. But here I have diabetes. I'm not doing anything about that. I've got an addiction problem. I'm not doing anything about that. I get out of jail. Um. And I have this craving for sugar craving man, like deep in my body.

I'm like, oh my God, like what's wrong with me? I've got like maybe $4 to my name and I get this, like this Mountain Dew and I chug like 84 ounces, no ice, just straight sugar. It might, it pops my blood sugar. Spikes my blood sugar. I go into a coma and. Well, I don't really know how it developed. I, I just know that I go comatose and my body temperature goes to 85 degrees and I'm out.

Like, I don't know. I'm out, completely out. But my friend who, you know, you know, he's a partier. He may have been high at the time. I don't know. He doesn't know what to do, you know, and it's not his fault, right. But I'm dying, you know, I'm on his couch and I'm dying. I, I'm, I'm defecating myself. I threw up on myself.

I'm completely out of it. My body temperature's dropping. I'm dying. You know, I, I'm exiting the world. So eventually he calls an ambulance, they get there, they helicopter me out to another town. Um, and they start doing, they started to triage, uh, my condition, my blood sugar is at 1100, which is they said is the highest they've ever seen.

And they said, they just the highest I've ever heard. Yeah. Yeah, that's, and that's, and I, but here's how ignorant I was, brother. I didn't, when they told me, I, when I come out of that coma and they're explaining to me what's going on, I'm looking at them clueless. Right? Clueless. Why? Because I'd never treated my diabetes.

I was ignoring the fact that I was an addict. I was, so they're telling me, they're asking me like, well, where was your insulin? What happened? Did you, did you get stuck somewhere without your insulin? You know, were you not able to get your medi? And I'm looking at them like, what are you talking about? And they're like, your, your blood sugar.

How on earth could it, how, how did it get so high? And I'm like. I couldn't tell you, I've never taken insulin in my life. I've never done anything about my blood sugar ever before. And they were looking at me like, oh, this is wild. Like you shouldn't be alive. Um, and I had a port in my chest, you know, I was completely out of it, but I did wake up to a lot of, a lot of people that cared about me.

That was, that was a wild experience. Um, and so, yeah, that was a. And I go into that in the book, you know, that's where, that's where I start the book off is from that coma. Yeah, it was, it was intense, man. But that wasn't even, that still wasn't the rock bottom, even though everybody, yeah, everybody claims it to be right because, uh, you know.

Ah, yeah, this is, that's crazy, man. No, I get that. Uh, the reason I brought up the, uh, the lower intestine injection, for those who don't know, uh, people will purposely do drugs or alcohol through their intestines to get the effects faster because of the absorption to the bloodstream. So don't ever do this.

Uh, I do not recommend this at all, but I've heard of people soaking tampons into alcohol and then plugging it up their ear. Um, and it's very dangerous, but. Yeah, so I find it, uh, in, so you kind of had like the full combination of worst possible things where it is also going straight into your intestines on top of, you know, it already being bad for you.

And I think it just insane to hear your story. I, I need to clarify, did they, was your diabetes developed as a result of the addiction? Yeah, yeah. It, you know, through copious amounts of alcohol and, and the, and the pills, you know, and, and I'll never truly know, I'll never truly, yeah, know exactly what it was, but my pancreas is broken.

And so, uh, I mean, even, even to this day. Doctors are a little com perplexed because I, I carry traits of diabetes one and two. And so, you know, they, they'll, they'll say things, it, it's, it's Wild Brother, how little people actually know about diabetes, including myself. I don't, I really don't know shit. I've gotta be honest, like, like I know what I need to do to kind of mitigate it.

I know what, I should stay away from here and there. Yeah. But as a, as a disease overall, man, I mean, they basically say the same thing every time. Exercise, eat less sugar. But I, I know if I eat very little amount of sugar and I have an active day, that could be just as dangerous. Yeah. That can be just as dangerous.

And so here I am, I've got this pancreas. It just doesn't, it just doesn't work. Uh, well, right. Um, and so yeah, it's, it's become something I, I have to navigate. And I want to go back to what's actually, you know, something very relevant is you said, I said I was sober because I wasn't on alcohol and my dad, some of the guys I've had on the show, same kind of mentality where my dad, as long as he is not drinking vodka, then you know, the holy grail of his addiction, he's sober.

He as if he's just. Like, and his biggest justification is he's really gotten into white claws, not a sponsor, drinking those every day to meet his alcohol cravings, but still be able to behave. And it's like you're not dry and you're not sober, but it regulates his addiction in a way where he's able to function at least.

Um, obviously I don't encourage it and I want him off alcohol Foley, but his justification is. Uh, yeah, of course I'm sober. I'm not on, on vodka. And then, um, I had, um, Andrew Michael Holton was on my show, and he kind of, when he was an addict in Korea, he was saying, oh, it's just soju, or it's just sake. It's not, you know, X, Y, Z.

So. We talked a lot about the justification game. I think I've even mentioned it on your show with my dad being, well, son, it's your birthday today. Of course, I have to drink. Or it's 4th of July. Oh, it's, it's St. Patrick's Day, you know, and him being half Irish to St. Patrick's day one. Ironically enough, he, that's the one day he like doesn't drink.

He's never been like crazy about it. But yeah, it's that. That justification of, oh, I'm, I'm not drinking, therefore, and that's because so many people have associated sobriety with alcohol use, you know, and, and people forget that, you know, drugs are addiction as well. It can, it's the same term sober used where, and people often, you know, Dr.

Brian Laquana, when he came on my show, one of my favorite episodes, he spoke about the difference between being dry and sober. You know, he said. People can be dry, not sober. And I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, dry is when you're not doing drugs or alcohol sober is when you're not doing drugs and alcohol and you're trying to improve your life spiritually.

Relationships, self-improvement, sobriety is that next step. You know, that's why your book is Man Up, sober Up, not Man Up, dry Up. Well, yeah. And so now let me, let me share development that I've, I've been working on and it's. It's, it, it has a, another layer to it, like what you're talking about. Like, you know, uh, the perspective or the narrative that we tell ourselves about.

Yeah. Know, okay, well, at least I'm not drinking vodka, so I'm much better than I was. And then they, you know, like as your father attaches a, uh, a label to it, I'm dry or, or, you know, I'm sober because I'm not doing this particular thing that ruins my life exponentially. I so. I spent a lot of time combating addiction.

Right? And so my, my recent development, right? And what I'm really focused on, and some people, some people shoot this down and they say, this is not the way to be. However, being an addict and trying to combat my addictive traits, my addictive characteristics, was a fricking nightmare. That's not me.

Moderation ain't me, brother. It ain't it. You know, I can't do anything like that, right? So instead of spending this energy just fighting upstream, I, I thought to myself, well, could I, could I just be all right with being an addict and then get addicted to things that. That matter. Get addicted to things that are valuable.

You pour my energy and tenacity into something that, that helps other people. Mm-hmm. And because, and this is how I kind of try to tie this in together, right? Like I try to, to tie it because, you know. People look down on it as, as a negative, but we choose our own perspective. Just like the rock bottom thing, as you were mentioning, like people visit this rock bottom and then some people's rock bottom is much lower than another person's, but if you look at it, well sometimes if you wanna shoot a a, an arrow far, you've gotta pull that string back a little bit further.

And that's what I see. People that have a really low lock, low rock bottom, they've just seen that Bo get pulled back so far, blows your mind. And so then they're just gonna launch that much further once they kind of figure out their own journey. But back to the thing about addiction, you know, instead of combating who I was, who I am, who I am inherently inside of my, inside of my body, let's pour it into something effective.

And I think that this is what it addicts make the world go round. You know, you see what I'm saying? Like mm-hmm. Mother Theresa. Mother Theresa, undoubtedly, was an addict for peace and caring for people. She put herself, herself at Harm's way. You know, Gandhi, WA was an advocate for being, you know, a political advocate and all of these things.

He put himself himself in harm's way. He had foregone his own personal. Natural desires at the very least, if not of his natural needs. Um, you know, he forg, he had foregone a lot of things. Yeah. And that's what addicts do. Addicts forgo what is going on around them. They forego their relationships and their own personal care to pursue something that's unhealthy.

Right. That's where it becomes unhealthy. But make no mistake about it, these people that turn the world, that make the world a different place, you know, Steve Jobs is addicted to innovation. You know, he, he was. Many people say like, you know, he was horrible to work with sometimes because he was so tenacious of, of his pursuit that he would kind of step on people in the process.

And so some people got hurt by that. And, and, and that's addictive nature. It is addictive nature. But look, well look what came as a result of it. And so, and these are extreme cases, but this is really, really what, what gets me fired up is that like. I don't try to, I don't try to douse the flame, uh, of, of the addict inside.

I just try to aim it at the right target. That's all I a hundred percent rather than trying to get rid of the addictive nature, you know, utilizing it in a different way. 'cause I had a episode with Nathan Bogie, gray guy, very impressive guy. Was doing a bunch of coke and, and alcohol. Cold quit one day, and now people would say he's addicted to the gym.

He go, he wakes up at like 3:00 AM, goes for like four or five hours every day. And that's what he does for sobriety. We talked about fitness as a replacement tool for addiction, and I, I have had other episodes where it's the same thing where people got really into artwork. You know, they're painting every day for hours or writing or working.

You know, people say I'm a workaholic. And that's where, you know, 'cause I've had a lot of addicts in my family, smoking, drinking, all that. They say, Mr. Whiskey, you're no exception. You just happen to be a workaholic. And, um, but yeah, I took a quiz courtesy of Alex Sanfilippo on a, um, pod match. The pod quiz, and my score for self-care was all the way in a red.

They, they looked at, they said, you're such a workaholic. You don't sleep, you don't eat. You just, you are always in a different state trying to do stuff for, for, for your company to reach people. I've been confronted about this multiple times. I was stopped in the military. Guy came up to me at chief. Great guy, super nice guy.

He said, petty officer whiskey, even Superman couldn't save everyone. You, you gotta take care of yourself, man. But I'm always out here and I said, I'm Batman, but you know, I'm always out here running around, you know, trying to help everyone and people say that's my, uh, you know, how I implemented my father's addictive nature in me and into work.

But I, I agree. You know, I think that it's interesting too because my father, it. His whole personality is addictive because you look outside of his drinking habits. There was a game called Pokemon Go that came out and um, about two years after this launch, I started playing it and I got my dad to play it.

And that just fed into his addictive and hoarding nature. I mean, he would play eight, still not as much, but he would play eight hours a day. To the point that he would, um, scream at my youngest sister. If, if she calls us a gym battle or if I got in the way of him catching a creature, he would get violent.

Like he became so addicted to Pokemon Go and he would just play for hours every day. He would run outside in his underwear at midnight to go catch a rare creature that, you know, was outside down the street like he got into. And plenty of people did, but he got into it. And then before that, there was this game, SL io, where you just, um, you eat these dots on a screen and you grow as a snake and then you can fight other snakes.

And man, that idea of hoarding up all these dots and points and becoming number one on the leaderboard, I mean, he got, he would play for hours every day blasting techno music. Like he's just addictive in nature. And I wish he was addicted to being a good father, you know, like I said, right. He, it just, everything he does, he does, like you said, he goes all the way, he full sense it.

He has to take it all the way to the next level, most of the time ruining it for other people, you know, and in fact, we won't get into it now, but you look at, a lot of young men are addicted to video games and, and we can say that even they're made to be addictive. Yes. But they're also taking advantage of people's addictive natures.

Um, so. To get back on track. Are you saying you're now a workaholic? Like you've put everything into, into writing, into helping people, you know, fight addiction into my rock bottom recovery? Is that kind of what you've done? Well, I would say the overall aim is, is up, meaning, uh. Well, just to kind of digress a little bit, you know, a very big part of my journey is physical fitness.

Right? And, and I wouldn't say that it ever truly got, uh, like to the unhealthy scale, um, but it was the focus. And I, and I, and I also, I understand why somebody, um, I think it's, it's an incredibly wise move because, uh, as I was saying is like I could see why somebody would choose exercise as a replacement, because there's an incredibly low hanging fruit in exercise, and it's the dopa dopaminergic release that you get from exercise.

Almost instantaneous, right? Like when you get a pump, like from lifting weights, it's, it's rather instant as far as that particular return is concerned. That feeling, of course, building muscle and that type of thing takes some time. Losing weight takes a little bit more time. But there can be, you know, uh, from a good workout, a very strong sense of release, a very strong sense of accomplishment, and you can get that from just a pretty quick.

Sweat you can get a sweat on and really achieve that. And so I always, man, if somebody's struggling, I'm like, Hey, before you hit that fridge and, and maybe you're addicted to sugar and before you hit that cake or you know, whatever it may be, like, just do 10 squats. And I'll ask like, can you, can you do 10 body weight squats?

Are you able to do that? Or if you, if you're not able to do that, can you just get up and down off the couch 10 times and can you promise me that you can do that before you actually make it over to the fridge to get maybe a beer or whatever? And so just the intervention of that movement typically will get that little spark, that little bit of a dopaminergic release to kind of interfere with that, that that habit, the habitual dopaminergic chase, right?

And so if you could kind of interfere with it a little bit with something that is healthy and exercise typically is, or five to six hours, five to six hours of it, it starts to become unhealthy. Um, but yeah, my own personal journey as far as physical fitness went, it was pretty much. It was all positive, right?

Um, I went from like 265 pounds down to 200. I went from like, I don't know, 34%, 36% body fat down to like 12. Um, and then I became a personal trainer, and so I was. I just took that transformation and I just, you know, copy and pasted that into the marketing and started training people. Um, and so that, you know, that helped, right?

But nobody really looked at me as like, oh man, that guy's, you know, he's a maniac. And so. The question was, what do I do? I pour that addictive nature into these days, and I would say it's my professional pursuit. Um, however, I haven't distilled that professional pursuit into like a single skill or a single, like, I haven't like poured it all into being an author despite having written a book.

Right. I haven't poured it all into being a podcast host despite being a host of a podcast. I, I have kind of just, uh, collectively aimed. A little higher and, and kept that traject trajectory up and as a result of that, right, and again, collectively just aiming slightly up and there's some real truth to this, right?

I, I, I haven't focused like a laser on one particular thing, but just keeping that aim positive day in, day out, whatever the particular pursuit may be, right? Like I, I've managed to just. Really take off professionally, which is uh, which is something that I was speaking about before we hit record. I mean, four years ago I was wanted, in three states, I couldn't get a job at Dunking Donuts.

I couldn't get a job at Walmart. They shut me down, went to the grocery store, they were gonna bring me on as manager. They did a background check. They shut me down. And, and like I had mentioned, like, who would hire me, right? And then as of yesterday, I turned down an offer for like a couple hundred thousand dollars a year.

And I thought to myself like. This seems illogical, but no, it's just the progression that I've made by aiming up every day and staying in that pursuit along the way. And it started to just grow exponentially. And then the results are actually here. I mean, it's just a, it's a magnificent transformation, but now as I'm kind of expressing myself, um, each individual project, like my book.

I, I wrote, I wrote and published that book in three months, right? Because I was addicted. So I guess to kind of. Retract my previous statement. I did use that addictive nature by like every morning. No alarm clerk. No alarm Clark, no alarm clock. I just boom. I'd wake up 3:30 AM fire inside of me. Writing, writing, writing, writing, writing, rereading, writing, writing, proofreading, send it to the editor.

I mean, it was like that part, I guess. It was a bit, it was a bit addictive there. So, so I said that it, I hadn't poured myself into it, but yeah, I did. I did really, I did really go hard there for, for a short period of time with that pursuit there. Right. So, yeah, and we kind of got nonlinear with the story.

We went over the most important part. When and why did you man up and sober up?

Well, I mean, that's such a tricky question, brother. Because, and this is just me being transparent. I had given up, man, I, I, I had thrown in the towel and I was like, in a very lazy way. Committing suicide, you know, every, every time. And I've actually talked to a lot of people, a lot of people in recovery that feel similar to what, what I'm about to express is that I just didn't care if I woke up or not.

I, I, I wouldn't drink a whole bottle of vodka with the intention of dying, but I think to myself, well, if I die, then I die. And I that started becoming the norm. Like, if I drink this bottle, it, it, it may be the last one. That's okay. And that's, that's that almost, I mean, and in some ways, yeah. Yeah. In some ways it's maybe even worse than, than, you know.

Having the intention and like getting the rope out and, and, and, you know, going down that path, uh, and this is something that I'm familiar with by the way. My, my stepfather, he hung himself, um, he was addicted to heroin and things started getting outta control on him. Uh, he's the father of my sister and my stepfather and, you know, she found him in the yard.

Um, just, you know, he had hung himself in the, from a tree there with a wire. Uh, so he, he went the other way. He was dead quiet about it. And then, you know, he, he had the intention, I'm gonna, I'm gonna end it. And so, yeah. It's, it's, uh, uh, but to answer your question and what you're saying is that, well, what turned that around?

Well after, after not caring for so long and looking to the left and right, and just knowing how freaking awful it felt, and I wasn't going anywhere. I didn't care if I died, but God kept me around many, many times over again. And eventually I got sick of it. I just got sick of it. I, I got sick of getting let out of the mental hospital.

I got sick of just thinking like that, being trapped. And so then I, I started figuring out ways to, to, to get some traction. Um, and so, um. Eventually I used, uh, uh, the time in a Baker Act in Florida where it's a 72 hour hold on you. Um, so it gives you this little window of drying out a little bit, just enough to maybe put a plan together.

And so then I started doing that. Uh, but the, it damn sure wasn't a switch, you know, I, it was not that pivotal, you know, it was, it was a more of a gradual, you know, like just sickening of where I was. And then. You know, making the decision, right? The decision became, came well before the traction, the decision of like, man, this sucks.

Like, what can I do? And then, you know, the traction didn't come until much further along down the road. And so it's, it's a tricky place to be brother, but it wasn't instantaneous. Yeah. And you know, I just hate that aspect because some people don't get sick of it or, you know, it takes so long for them to get sick of it, and, and sometimes it's too late and so it's, it's, it is just rough.

And then you mentioned, and I mentioned a couple times the podcast, so I'd, I'd love for you to share about that and, you know, the recovery of your work you're doing with that. Yeah, I, I'm helping people on an individual level. Uh, I am helping some people. You know, just because of the, the nature of my family and things like that, I don't take too much on my plate, but I'm helping people on an individual level.

Also with the show, uh, you know, there, there have been a lot of people, um, that have shared, um. Moments of, uh, of identifying with, with the message, but it is called the next fix. It is focused on the better end of recovery. Um, and I use it as a platform, um, you know, for people that have, you know, stacked up some sobriety days and they're putting their own projects together and that type of thing.

Have them come on the show and then express like, what that, what that has looked like. You know, how did that. A call to adventure happen. How did they get to, you know, either writing a book or helping out their families or whatever it may be? Um, it's been an excellent platform. It's been, so, it's been a, a.

It's been an awesome experience. And then that's also conjoined with the Facebook page. My, my Rock Bottom Recovery. Um, man, I, I got 240,239,000 followers, 239.5. It's just, but like, man, you know, just seeing people interact with, with whether it might just be a phrase or it might be a clip from some people in recovery or people expressing how, how they've been in it.

Um, you know, it, it's for a lot of people. It helps them, right? It gives, it gives them a layer of hope. Uh, 'cause it too, too many times we put ourselves up against others and in a very unfair perspective, we're like, look at them and we think about how far we have to go. And instead of thinking. It can be done, you know?

And so that's a tricky place, man. And so I'd like to think that I position the brand in, in providing some hope, um, and not just hope, but maybe, you know, some steps and some resources to, to make the, make a move in the right direction. Yeah. And what do you see future wise as far as books? As far as the show?

As far as the group, just continual expansion. Do you have any projects that you're working on right now? I not, not necessarily right. Because I got a 16 month old son, he takes up pretty much all of my attention these days. Yeah. But, but at some point, you know, he'll, he'll have his own adventure to be called to, uh, you know, school, things like that.

But I, I, I think that the, the next book is gonna be on the horizon and the not too far future. Um, and so I've been kicking around, uh. You know, uh, titles, man Up, level up might be one of them. Um, and it's just, uh, again, I, I believe wholeheartedly in just reaching down the ladder, uh, to somebody that's a few rungs down below, right?

And there always is somebody we need to pay attention to who's above us, learn, and then look behind us down on that ladder and help. And so, you know, that that would be the next pursuit is most likely that one. Okay. And then as we end things here, I, I want. Two messages from you. The first one, what would be your message to everyone listening?

Who is dealing with an addicted loved one right now? Whether it's a brother, a son, a husband, a wife, a daughter. They're dealing with an addicted loved one. What would be your message to them? Yeah, the message is a hell of a lot easier than pulling it off. My friend, and actually we spoke about this, it's like.

You have to mitigate that distance with boundaries. And so don't give up on them, but don't just do everything they want. Right. And that, that's the, that's the delicate walk, right? Yeah. But so how about, how about this boots to ground move to make here, right. Set an alarm and call them every damn Thursday or every day at a particular time, or once a month, whatever that looks like.

Set an alarm and do it. So where they know. Okay. It's Thursday, my son's gonna call me. It's noon. And then you do it. And when you start doing that, and maybe it's stopping by and bringing over a sandwich, whatever, it's, but create the boundary, then do it over and over again. And when they see that you're, that you're always there like clockwork, you haven't given up on them.

However, they, you don't pick up every time they call to give 'em 20 bucks. You see what I'm saying? There's a difference, right? You set, you set the support on your schedule. Mm-hmm. Not whenever they're just calling you and being an addict and looking for an, you know, 20 bucks to get high again. You can't let that happen.

So boots to ground move, set an alarm call on that day and time, just boom, like clockwork. Um, you know, I think that that's, that's a very helpful move right there for certain purpose. And now, and you said a, a nugget. Well, the second message then I want, what would you say to the addict listening right now?

Maybe they just found out their addict. Maybe they're, they listen to the conversation. They're like, you know what? Maybe my habits are addictive. Or maybe they're, they, they happen to listen to this because they're trying to get better. What would you say to them, to the addict, especially after all you've been through?

Right. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a damn good question, brother. And I would say, I would say perpetual, incremental progress is unstoppable. But what does that mean? Perpetual means it has to be. Repetitious has to be every day, but it doesn't have to be big every day. As I was kind of mentioning. I just aim up and then keep it, keep it, and keep the aim above the horizon.

That's it. And so perpetual means you don't stop incremental means, or it's implied. Incremental is small, right? It doesn't have to be big leaps and bounds and you know, you don't have to reach some massive milestone, but you do just have to focus on getting better every day, incremental. Small progress, right?

So that just anything that gets you a little bit better, it might be a, a decision with your diet. It might be a decision of you just not having. A drink every hour. Maybe it's a little, you know, maybe it's a little more, maybe it's two hours, whatever it looks like for you, right? Figure, figure out what that is to be a little bit better that particular day than do that, right?

So, so yeah, perpetual, incremental progress is unstoppable. If you get that formula right, it, it will not fail. You will not fail. You will be exponentially better than where you, where you are now in just maybe six months. Hell, maybe even three months, but if you keep that up for a year, two, three years, it's gonna blow your mind on where you're gonna end up.

It really will. Yeah. No, I, I, I think that's great advice and hope everyone listening, whether you're the addicted one or on the side of handling someone who is dealing with an addiction, you know, this has been helpful. Again, man up, sober up in a description below my rock bottom recovery. The next fix. A ton of resources, you know, for getting sober, staying sober.

And for helping your loved one who is addicted or helping yourself. And Mr. Penley, thank you for all that you do for sharing your story and then for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. I appreciate this time, brother. Thank you. See you.