Helping Your Young Adult Launch: Mental Health, Gap Years, College Struggles, & Career Readiness

Today, I sit down with Joanna Lilley, a therapeutic consultant and founder of Lilley Consulting, who’s spent the last decade helping young adults navigate one of the most chaotic transitions in life: ages 18 to 29. Ms. Lilley works with clients all over the world to help them build real-life skills, develop self-awareness, and get the tools they need to launch into adulthood with clarity and confidence. We explore the developmental, financial, and emotional pressure points that keep young adults stuck — and what families can do about it. 

We talk about everything from geographic instability and mental health to gap years, job shame, social media comparison, and the myth that college is the only valid path forward. Ms. Lilley breaks down the difference between being “college capable” versus “college ready” — and why so many young adults end up wasting thousands on an education they’re not prepared to handle. We also hit on the harmful glamorization of college degrees and career paths, and how lack of job experience can lead to shame, avoidance, and paralysis. 

As someone who’s lived the stress of bouncing from job to job and coping with anxiety the hard way, Ms. Lilley brings unmatched empathy and real-world insight. She shares her early experiences in seasonal hospitality and wilderness therapy, explains what executive functioning looks like in real life, and offers practical tools for parents to create structure and communication during their kid’s gap year — instead of enabling emotional or financial codependency. 

Whether you’re a parent, mentor, or young adult trying to figure out your next move, this episode is a compass. We’re not just talking about how to survive these years — we’re talking about how to turn them into the foundation of something stronger. And if you want more from Ms. Lilley, check out her podcast, Success is Subjective, and her free tools at Lilley Consulting.

https://lilleyconsulting.com/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Ka Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And you might hear the fever is gone, but the, uh, the raspy voice is not. So we're almost there. So this should be the last episode where you have to hear me being sick, uh, for the next week and a half until I get sick again.

Because the weather, it is 108, it's 60, it's, it can't make up its mind. But we are gonna talk about the weather and going outside a little wilderness therapy, uh, briefly today. But our main focus is going to be something that's really important to me, something I talk about a lot, which is that transitionary period from, you know, 17, 18 to 2021.

For a lot of people, they're figuring out college, maybe military, maybe they're taking gap years, years. Sometimes a gap year depends on how things go. And uh, one of the things we've explored the most on this show, at least from the military perspective, is. The difficulty of parents adjusting to their children, being adults.

Um, you see this in what we'll get into being a college aged person, living with your parents still. And that my house, my rural situation, and you're still a kid until you graduate college. Like very common situation. And then in the military, when you go back home on leave and you stay with your parents and now you're independent and then they're trying to treat you like a kid.

So that's just one of many dynamics we're gonna get into. We're gonna get into finances, health, a lot of stuff today, focusing all on the young adults, that transitionary period, which can make or break their lives. And today we have a woman who is dedicated to working with them one-on-one to help ensure that transition goes smoothly.

And if it's not, how can we recover? How can we pivot and how can we do better? So Ms. Joanna Lily, appreciate your patience through that long introduction, but. Uh, hopefully you can elaborate a little bit on what I said there and share a little bit about yourself. Absolutely. Thank you. Well, I, I don't have to do too much of an introduction 'cause you really just, you talked about it All right.

Um, my, my job title I think is important to talk about because I am a therapeutic consultant. Um, I'm trained as a therapist, but I'm not acting as a therapist. I tell people, just gives me the knowledge to know what types of supports would be appropriate for the young adults that I'm working with or parents, right.

As I'm redirecting them towards resources. Um, but I work with this young adult, emerging adult population, which really kind of casts a wider net between 18 and about 29, give or take. And so my focus and expertise truly is in, like you said, the, these developmental years of individuating from your parents.

What does that look like? What does it mean for you finding relationships, kind of solidifying your identity as a, a separate adult human being, and then also really just making sure that they're, they're. Uh, they have the skills necessary to be independent or self-sufficient. Really, I think independence is not the way to go.

It's interdependence, right? Mm-hmm. Being able to lean on others outside of your family system to be able to, again, be financially independent as a young person. But I will, that's, that's me. I live in Michigan, but I work with young adults all across the US and the globe. Honestly. Um, I keep a small caseload 'cause I wanna be able to have that close relationship with the clients that I work with.

But like you said, my job literally is to work with them one-on-one, figure out what they need and help them get connected to those resources. Right. And now I would say. Our goal as parents is kind of prevention, which is set your children up for when they get to those transition years that they're ready, right?

Mm-hmm. If that fails, and then I would say I would consider you more of intervention with prevention as well. Is that, is that how you would describe it? You or a third party that kind of comes into the picture? Either the parents, like how does it work? Do the young adults call you? Do the parents call you?

Does does a college sometimes call you? How does that all work? Yeah. I, I refer to the parents as the customer. 'cause essentially they're the ones hiring me. But I'm really clear and articulating that the young adult is my client. And so my client has to actually meet with me. They have to decide whether or not they feel comfortable.

Like again, sharing information, getting to know me, allowing me to like constantly text and call them like, Hey, we gotta check in. Where are things at? Right. Um, so, so that's kind of the dynamics. I would say the majority of times it's parents that are finding me first, I would say it's actually a growing trend that the, the clients, right, the young adults are the ones doing the research first and reaching out to me, which is awesome.

The only dilemma with that is that if they're a hundred percent financially independent on their parents, it creates a weird dynamic, especially if they're the ones saying, Hey, I need help. I think the service is awesome. And then you have this disconnect where the parents are like, you can figure this out on your own.

It's like, actually the whole reason that they're reaching out is because they're identifying that they can't. So that, that is, um, that's really kind of how that plays out. And to get into it. Uh, you kind of mentioned some of the, the financial aspect there. Mm-hmm. Is this, uh, are you, do people's insurance cover you or this is like a privately paid practice?

Like how does that work in terms of that? I, unfortunately, insurance does not acknowledge the type of work that I do. Okay. Um, even though, which is like, this is where it's like we're really into the weeds. Right. Um, if you are a licensed therapist working in a case management role, which technically some of the work that I do could fall under that case management umbrella.

I would have to be licensed and I would have to be working with a family in state that I'm working with. And even then, it depends on their insurance plan, whether or not their insurance plan is gonna even acknowledge case management. So it is, it's a racket. Um, I tell families though, that if they're, the types of resources that they're looking for are covered by insurance, right?

Especially in like the mental health or substance use realm. I can help navigate that. Like that's not a problem. Uh, finding resources that are covered either in network or, or accessing out-of-network benefits, that's not a problem. It's just the like, Hey, when you hire me, I'm for sure the piece of the puzzle that will be out of pocket.

Right. Right. And I think it's really interesting what you spoke on kind of goes to the generational aspect, and this is in reference back to the, the young adults finding you first, which I think mm-hmm. Millennials, gen Z, gen Alpha, there are a lot more online about mental health, about resource sharing and provision, and they're more into the podcasting, the YouTube, the TikTok, all this stuff, and, and sharing resource for mental health and acknowledging that there are issues there.

Yeah. Um, not to say that the older generations don't as well, uh, but historically it was more of, uh, you know, push down and, and not seek services. And there was a lot of stigmatizing of, you know, these kinds of practices and consultations. So absolutely interested to see those, uh, trends change. And I think, uh, that's pretty awesome that they reach out to you.

So do, would you say they just come across your website or they, they find you and then they just reach out through there? Uh, for the young adults? Yes. In fact, I actually just had my first, uh, like inquiry last week where the young woman found me through chat GPT, which was wow. The first I'm like, that's holy cow chat, GP oh, like I'm on your radar.

Like, that's wild. Anyways, that's, that's how the young adults find me is like either social media, my website, somehow doing their own, like research for parents. It's usually from other parents, like they have a friend, they're disclosing to their friend, Hey, I'm having trouble with my young adult, or my young adult is struggling.

And then that person's like, oh, hey, by the way, I worked with, worked with Joanna before, or My sister worked with Joanna. You should have reached out. And so at least it's a, you know, parent to parent connection, which I appreciate. 'cause then when I'm speaking with that potential customer, they have an idea or a sense of what I do.

I don't have to explain it because they've already got a reference from another family that had experience working with me. Right. And I wanna get more into what you do now, but I do wanna get just a little more background. 'cause I had read in your pile that you also did work in seasonal hospitality and wilderness therapy.

Could you give us just a little bit background about, uh, those as well? Absolutely. One of my undergraduate degrees was in recreation parks and tourism, and my specific focus was outdoor education or outdoor rec. Um, and at the time I think I had a cohort of like maybe somewhere between 20 and 25 classmates.

We all, when we graduated, we all went and kind of scattered and worked in more, I would consider it like a more therapeutic environment. So people were working for Outward Bound, they were working for specific wilderness therapy programs. They were working for state run, um, kind of like identified as adventure therapy or, or wilderness like experiences, um, adventure, the um, what was it called?

Project adventure, things like that. Um, and so, and you know, when you're 22 you wanna stay connected to your friends. So I felt like I had a finger on the pulse of like, oh, my friend's out in Montana and this is what they're doing and this other friend's out in Hawaii and what are you doing? And you're out in Utah, what are you doing?

I went and worked seasonally for five years, kind of piecing together a lot of these different jobs. Like I worked for the state of Connecticut, uh, working for their Department of Children and Family Services. They have a state run. I wouldn't call it wilderness therapy, but it's more like outdoor oriented, like short courses for, um, like adjudicated youth.

I also worked for a wilderness therapy program, um, in Vermont. I worked for a, I mean, the hospitality side of things was more like. And because I had an outdoor ed degree and I was like, what do I wanna do? I was a ski instructor and then I worked for like a, a mountain bike and a cross country ski resort.

And then when I actually like full story, went back and got my master's, I ended up working at a, a different ski resort. And instead of being a ski instructor, ended up like, you know, with a master's degree in counseling, I'm working at the front desk of a spa because in my mind I was like, I just need the, the least amount of like customer interaction in an outdoor environment, but it gave me a free ski pass.

So I was like, I love this. So that was, that was like, you know, like I said, 22 to 27, my life was bouncing around all over the US working for like either three or six months stints. And then I would move somewhere else. And in a way that makes you can understand a lot more some of the struggles that young people are going through, especially who are moving around.

Because I've known plenty of young people, like my one friend who just got in military, I mean, he's on like his fifth job in the past few months. Like there's sometimes you bounce around a lot trying to figure out what you want to do. I really like that you mentioned about the societal influence and the kind of friend group.

Like, oh, you know, I, I want to do what my friends are doing and we all stay in touch. And so we'll get into that more. I gotta, I gotta do a shameless plug for, um, my episode on Nature Informed Therapy. Uh, I have a couple of those, so if you wanna check those out on my website. 'cause you're like, what do you mean wilderness therapy?

Like people mm-hmm. Look it up. It's pretty awesome. It's, uh, pretty beneficial. It sounds, it sounds strange, but it's awesome. But how did that lead you into what you do now? Oh my gosh. Um, well. Honestly, kind of speaking to the empathy and understanding that I have for young adults. And mind you, I'm, I'm a lot older than young adults right now, and so I, I understand the generational disconnect there, but I see it, right?

I live it and work it every day. So at least I have that empathy and understanding when I reflect back on those five years where I worked seasonally, my anxiety was through the roof and it was self-inflicted because I was constantly like the second I had a job that I was starting, I needed to already be applying for and interviewing and selecting, where am I going next?

What am I doing? Wow. And I was, I was pro, I mean, I was cranking out when I wasn't in the field and I was like near a computer. I was cranking out job applications, California, like I was even doing, um. I'm forgetting spacing on the name right now, but this also speaks to some of the classmates that I work with, and, and you probably will know this immediately, what is the, um, what's the side of the military where civil employees can come and work and it's more like, uh, outdoor oriented activities.

I wanna say it's MWR, is that right? Oh, yes, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. So they have, um, okay. Right. So for people who aren't familiar with the military, basically there's typically one or two people on the ship or the base, and they plan these fun activities, uh, for the weekends, for the, for, uh, poor calls and for just like command mental health and wellness.

The idea is, hey, all the sailors on a Friday, um, we're gonna go watch a baseball game or we're gonna go kayaking, or we're, and a lot of, unfortunately, and I I will say this 'cause it's important, so, and I've talked about this in suicide prevention and addiction prevention in the military, so many young men have this stigma of like, oh, or that's gay, or that's stupid, I'm not gonna do that.

They like, that's literally the mindset around it. And it's like, these are people coming to the ship, civilians who. Plan these fun events that you should take advantage of. I regret not doing it. My buddy, you know, he came back one day and he is like, you're really missing out Mr. Whiskey. You know, we went on a, a electric bike tour of all of Charleston, or we went kayaking down this, you know, whatever river.

And it's like people are, so they just get this idea of, oh, it's the military though. It's military associated. Again, it's a civilian. Uh, a lot of times it's someone who has, um, military parents or, and they want to connect with that community. Yeah. Um, but it has nothing to do with it. Yeah. You're with other sails and soldiers and whoever, but all of y'all are in civilian clothes.

It's your day off and you're going out and doing something fun. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's free. They, sometimes you gotta pay depending on the event, but it's like they organize everything. All you gotta do is show up. If there's a cost, pay the cost. And it's a great way to meet people on your ship and your base.

And I, I really wish. More people in the military would take advantage of that. Yeah. And, um, I really appreciate the, the civilians who do step up and, and fill that role so that we can have something like that. Yeah. But that, I mean, that, thank you for that, that that tells you also how long ago it was since I was applying to those types of jobs.

But that was also kind of like a little break off group of some of the, my classmates were like, okay, great. I, you know, went and worked in Outward Bound in Montana, and now I'm gonna do MWR in Japan, or I'm gonna be in, I mean, like, they were all over. And I just, I have wanderlust too. So I was cast in such a wide net of like, where can I work?

What's the commitment, what's this next chapter? And I was really trying to leave no stone unturned, like, just honestly a part of my own identity formation was where do I wanna go? What do I wanna do? Which leads to the question that you just asked. So here I was. Five years exhausted by the end of like, oh my gosh, okay, I need to find something that's a little bit more long term.

Can I settle in? And I also just kind of had this, I ma I made the executive decision that I was tired being kind of like in the trenches, no pun intended, with the young people that I was working with. And so I was like, I need an advanced degree, what do I wanna do? Um, I decided that I wanted to kind of stay in that therapeutic lane.

So that's where I went back and got my master's in counseling. I specifically went to West Virginia University because they were. Like, now I'm like really getting in a tangent too. Um, they were kind of top tier with it, the Association for Experiential Education focused on this, um, like college wilderness or adventure orientation.

And so WVU is actually kind of like a highlight college for a lot of colleges nationwide that were saying how do we do a better job of engaging and retaining our first year students? So my lens going into WVU was, this is so cool that they do these wilderness orientations, which was actually something that I had done at, at my undergrad, like unbeknownst to me that that kind of planted the seed of like carrying on, you know, like nine years later here I am still kind of connected to this.

And then it also exposed me to some of the like nuanced. Um, you know, just like initiatives that colleges are doing, right, we do a big push of like, come to the school. It's so awesome. But then behind the scenes there's a lot of hustle. How do we actually not just get the students here, but how do we keep them so that they stay on through graduation?

And so that led me through, while I was getting my master's, I'm coaching students that were on academic probation, so then that this is a new light bulb going off of like, oh, I'm dealing with, you know, 18 to 22-year-old clients that are, are academically very capable. But it's everything else in their life that's impacting them and it's showing up on their transcript essentially.

Like, Hey, you're on academic probation, but hey, can we just talk about what happened last semester? Right? Like they lost a friend or they're struggling with their mental health or you know, like you name it, the list can be pretty long with what's going on. And so I just really started to tap into, I like these connections with young people.

'cause they still, it still felt like a lot of the experiences that I had prior to starting grad school. And then that just diverted me on a path where it was like, I wanna work with this college age, continue to work with this college aged population, and how do I, how do I continue to do what I'm doing?

Which is super rad And I'll fast forward it ended up. Taking me out to Colorado State University, which is, you know, what I did for almost three years. Coaching students, uh, running workshops, uh, being connected in, in different kind of like subgroups on campus. Again, all targeted towards like student retention initiatives.

And then, um, I get really tired of the bureaucracy that exists within a college system. And so now, now the light bulb's going off where I'm like, how do I continue to work with this population but just not have the, like shackles that are being put on me by, you know, a. 70-year-old white men that are so disconnected from 18-year-old, uh, college students.

And so, um, then fast forward two years later, I was like, I gotta, I need to hustle and figure out how to launch this consulting business. And I toured a lot of programs connected with a lot of therapists, psychiatrists, coaches, like you name it, to try to just like really make sure that the vision that I had with working with this population was not, you know, like one, you know, single sighted or anything like that, that I, that, you know, the need was there.

And so, fast forward almost nine years later, here I am doing this business for, you know, almost a decade and loving the work that I do because it is challenging. Every young adult is different and the needs are still there, if anything. Right. And I love that you kind of spoke about the reasons behind academic probation, because I've had a lot of episodes about parenting and mentorship and the fact that a lot of parents or mentors, they make you, whoever it is that, um, you know, is struggling, whether it's behavior in school, whether it's, you know, academics, whatever it is.

They, they make you the issue. They, they blame you. They say, why did you do this? Instead of, yeah, what was going on that this happened? And we've talked about the difference between blaming a person and then looking at the environmental factors. And we've talked about discipline versus punishment and accusations versus, um, trying to figure out what's going on.

So I think that's important, right? People, especially if you've always been a good student, uh, whether high school or college or middle school, and then you start having issues and people are just like, well, obviously it's you. You're not trying hard enough, or you're slacking off. And it's like, well, historically that's not true.

So why would it suddenly be the case? Right? That means something changed. Uh, it could have been something internal, but typically that's because of the result of something external, right? I feel like most people aren't like, you know what, I'm done. I'm done with school. Uh, right. It's not because they hate school, it's because there's stuff going on that made them hate school or whatever it may be.

Yeah. So I think that's so important to acknowledge. And I think you spoke about something that is really common with young adults. Um, I call it geographic instability. I don't know if there's a professional term for it, but, uh, that where am I gonna go, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, not a lot. Sometimes you have a choice, an option, uh, but a lot of times I know like, um, because it's, well now it's around August time, but like a month ago, two months ago, a lot of colleges graduated.

And a lot of my friends who graduated college, it was all like, Mr. Whiskey, I just can't find a job in the area where I want to live. And, and now I'm looking at England and Canada and across the us and am I gonna have to move to another country just to find a job? Am I gonna have to go all the way to California when I live on the East Coast?

And it's like, there's so much stress and anxiety about that, not knowing where you're gonna go, and then. If it's a job that's like contract based or temporary, well then when do, right, where do I go from there? You know? So I think, yeah, that is something that a lot of people struggle with, especially if they don't have, uh, parental support, you know, some college kids or whatever.

If you're in your gap years, you know, um, just stay with their parents and it's like, Hey, you know, son slash daughter, you know, once you, um, find a job, you're good to go, but you're welcome to stay here. Not everyone has that. Some people, it's like the day they turn in 18, they get a giant boot on their back and they get pushed out the front door, you know?

Mm-hmm. So what you talked about having so much anxiety with mm-hmm. Where's the next job? Where, where am I moving next? How did you cope with that? Um, or how should we cope with that? That, in, in that you didn't, you know, like how, how did you deal with that? Um, not appropriately. I will say that right for myself, which again is why I have a lot of empathy for the, the young people that I work with now.

Um, I was probably like overly, I, I was showing up as like buzzing all the time to my friends. Like I would just remember like some of my coworkers, like Joanna, chill out. Like, you just need to, like, we literally just started this job. Like your anxiety is like rolling over to me. Um, I would run a lot, so I did a lot of running and I still do, which is, I would actually view that as a healthy, or at least as, as long as you're not like overusing it, it can be like a, a healthy coping, uh, skill.

Um, I did smoke a lot of weed. I will be honest. That was like a big part of like, okay, at the end of the day I just need to like shut my brain off. I don't do that anymore. Uh, but that was like a big part of my early to late or early twenties, like during those, um. Months. And then the other thing was, um, honestly just kind of hanging out with people being distracted.

That was also just something, you know, so we'd like go to a bar or we'd go watch a movie or we, you know, like I was before FOMO was a thing that was like, something that I would just be, I was constantly doing something because it was a need for me to, again, distract myself. Because if I was left to my own devices, then my wheels would not stop spinning about, okay, what's next?

You know, is this job even giving you what you need? I mean, it was just, it would not turn off. And so the only way that I felt like I could stop it truly was going back to college. I was like, I, I, I'm gonna commit to two years. I'm learning a lot. I'm gonna focus while I'm here. And then after that, hopefully I can find more of a, like, full-time permanent job.

So I had to get off the train in order to like actually stop myself. Right. And I think it can be very difficult for people, uh, you know, to even like fully indulge in those distractions because they're gonna be, I know plenty of people who are disconnected when they're with their friends or family. Some part of them is thinking about work or thinking about that, you know, other stuff.

Like you said that fomo, fear of missing out. And I think, I think I want to caution young adults and, and parents of young adults to the, the stability of school can become a trap in itself where it's like, all right, I just keep going to more and more school to avoid Yeah. Being an adult to avoid having certain responsibilities, to avoid having a job.

And it's like. Yes, you have the stability in your mind because you're like, all right, I'm going to school. That's it. I don't need to do anything else. Mm-hmm. I'll staying here, but you're digging yourself a financial grave. Uh hmm. Especially depending on what, depending on what school you're going to, it could be a financial grave for life.

And it's also the trap sometimes of you're just getting a degree to get it. It's not even something you want. Or you're like, I think I could like this, but it doesn't matter as long as I'm in school. So I really wanna caution people avoid that stability trap of school. You know, you should, yeah. Make sure it's something you can use.

Right. Make it a, the setup for a permanent fix, not a temporary fix. You know? I think that's so important. Yeah. And what would you say, I mean, you work with these young adults, and I'm sure you cover finances, mental health, relationships, all of this stuff, right? Because young adults lies in our lives in general are a lot of moving parts, but commonly across the past, almost decade, what would you say is the biggest issue young adults are facing in those transitionary years?

I, it's kind of, well, there's three things, uh, just in terms of like what are the trends that I'm seeing, right? Um, the first is that there's little to no experience of like, having worked a job or anything, especially as it ties to finances, right? So like, the focus has been college for most of the clients that I'm working with.

And then once they get there, the young adult's like, wait, what? I just realized that I signed up for optional. Like, higher education high school was really hard. Like, why did I do this? Right? So that's, that's where some of that existential likem or crisis kind of comes in because now all of a sudden they're starting to question, why didn't I consider a different path?

Right? So like, there's just, there's a lot going on there. I also think that with the lack of experience, kind of going back to the like college piece now all of a sudden, or, or not having a job. If all of a sudden they're questioning being in higher education and they've never worked a job before, then we have this compounding like shame and or almost like I would call it paralysis in making a decision.

Well, I have no idea where to even start. And depending on where they live, let's be real. Sometimes there's there there is shame or stigma associated with jobs. I don't wanna work in fast food or I don't wanna work at a bar. You know, like whatever. And it's just like, well work a job to work a job, but that's a lot easier said than done when you're dealing with somebody who's 15, 16, 17 and like just working a job to get experience versus somebody who's 18, 22, 23 and never had a job and really feeling embarrassed a hundred percent for the lack of experience.

And then this is like where the, the triangle kind of wraps up. The last piece is social media or tech use. It's allowed us to avoid a lot of those responsibilities, um mm-hmm. And, or it puts a lot of images in front of us on what we're supposed to be doing or what our peers are doing. And then we compare ourselves to that Again, that's where the compounding of shame or embarrassment comes in.

Well, I can't work a job, you know, like at McDonald's because, you know, this person, my classmates, they're all like, already with college degrees or, you know, they're working at, you know, insert something that feels a little bit more higher end or luxurious or advanced. So they're just like, I'm not even gonna start.

So that's where we start to see these seeds planted of like avoidance, right? Or they're just like, I, I don't even know what path to pursue. And it just becomes all too overwhelming. And it, when you have a generation of young people that are really almost overstimulated, um, because they're just getting so much information, then it becomes easier to just block it all out and do nothing than to take at least one step in some direction that might end up a job that doesn't work out, whether you leave it or you're let go, or it's just a path that you just don't even like, like that, that experiencing of failure, perceived failure.

Disinterest or rejection ends up being, again, like that package deal, no one wants to like, like, let's keep that away. So I'm just gonna like, hang at home, play some video games, do chores if parents ask me, and then maybe eventually some light bulb will go off for me, where all of a sudden now I'm motivated to enlist or go to school or work a job.

And it's just, it's a, it's a real unrealistic expectation or vision for young people. So I would say that's the, like, if you can somehow put that in a box right, with a neat little bow, that's the biggest kind of combination of a trend that I see for young adults right now. I resonate with a lot of what you said, you know, I think especially as a, a young military man, I think that what I saw a lot was, um, kind of shame if you.

This stigma, like if you didn't follow the same field you were in. I'll give an example from my personal life. I was an electrician, make nuclear operator, right? And when I got out, I was working Waitering job because I was in between where am I gonna move? What am I gonna do? And some of the, you know, like high school college girls that were working at the restaurant too, they were like, isn't that sad Mr.

Whiskey, that you, you know, you were a nuclear operator and now, now you wait tables. That's like so embarrassing. That's so like pathetic. And it's like, in my head I'm like, okay, well I need, I'm doing this to as, as a transitionary job between plan A and plan B. Uh, but you know, it's like, it kind of speaks to people who have such short term vision.

I feel like, especially the younger generations is so like, now, now, now it's like, yeah. I'm doing this as a crucial part of a much bigger picture that, that you're at a point in your life you couldn't even understand that. You know, it's, uh, so I I, it is just, it's frustrating and I think it's also, like, I remember when I was a manager at a location and hiring and doing interviews, it was like, you're 20 or 22 have never worked a job.

And, and you know, I, I did understand that it from that aspect. Uh, but that's just because I, I remember my mom made me get a job in high school, you know, she said, Hey, son, one day she's like, I got you a job. I said, what? She goes, yeah, I met this guy. I did an interview and, uh, you're gonna start working this job.

You got your first day tomorrow. What, um, which I think is important. I mean, this is my personal opinion, which I think every high schooler, at least in the later half of, of high school, should work some kind of job. Right? It doesn't have to be anything big. I know we got sports, we got. Chorus and singing and play and banding a lot of moving parts.

Uh, but I think especially in the summertime of, you know, your sophomore year, your junior year, whatever it is, um, you should, you should work a small job at least to get some kind of experience, uh, to have workplace experience just about being in that kind of environment. Um, you know, I think it's more about the mentality aspect in the money aspect, but what's your opinion on that?

Do you think parents should really be, gosh, pushing for them to work some kind of job just to help make it easier when they get to college, they're like, Hey, I've, I've done a job before, even if it's a low level job and I don't say low level in, in terms of, it's not important, but as that kind of entry position job.

And I think that takes away from the, oh wow, this is new. 'cause college is already a new experience, right? Mm-hmm. And it's got all this new stuff over. Yeah. You talked about being overstimulated. Imagine throwing on another thing that's brand new and now you gotta learn all this culture and, and, and get your schedule ready.

If it was something familiar, it'd be a lot less overstimulating. Yeah. Honestly, there, um, I wish more parents did exactly what your parents did. Yeah. Like, Hey, you got a job? Could ask her. Start. Well, yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Communicate, but encourage some sort of entry level job. Because I think it speaks to, well, one of the things that we've kind of, we, we've, uh, skirted the topic, which is just financial literacy or education, understanding the, like, you have to understand what a har or dollar means, right?

And you also, I think there's, there, there's a lot more respect for family, for whoever you are dependent on financially, when you have some sort of ability to make money, save it a hundred percent and or spend it. Right. And so that's, and that is a skill that every person needs to have, regardless of whether or not you go to college.

You cannot live or be financially dependent on your parents forever. So there's gotta be some sort of starting point. And if you can start it earlier, the earlier the better, because then that just allows you the understanding and knowledge of where finances even come from. In addition to that, working a job, it depends on what you do, but you can get great customer service skills, right?

Teamwork skills, you're, you're focusing on executive functioning, which I know is also like a hot button word and a lot of young adults struggle with it, and it often times relates or translates to kind of how you show up in a classroom. But the reality is executive functioning is how we show up day to day.

Do you wake up in the morning? Can you establish a routine? Can you start and finish a task? Are you motivated? Do you have understanding? I mean, like the, the list goes on. These are things you can like plug and play, any type of environment, whether it is a classroom, whether it's a job, whether it's being in the military.

Like you have to show up and we need these skills. And so I think that's also another reason why it's so important to be able to have some sort of work or employment experience because then that translates to whatever it is you do or continue to do with your life. A hundred percent. You know, having that work ethic translates over academically as well because you're like, Hey, I've, I've, you know, done school.

And then also stuff afterward, you know, you kind of built this, this repetition of longer days or doing more tasks. And I think you mentioned about learning about financial literacy, and I've seen that in the aspect of like you talked about. Understanding and respecting more, you know, your parents for the money they spend on you.

And also just, I know as working as a waiter, you know, uh, everyone who I worked with as a waiter, we respected and, and paid more for waitstaff where we went out to. And, um, yeah. Also this, the aspect of respect, you know, so many people looked down on those entry level jobs. Like you look down on the janitor or the waiter or whatever it is, and then you work it and you're like, oh, why was I being a jerk to this?

Like, we kind of forget that they're people. Yeah. And then until you work it, and now it's like, oh, you know, because like I care about me more than anyone now. I'm like, don't, don't disrespect the janitor. I'm the janitor. You know, so to speak. So I think it does teach a lot of important life skills about respect and, and I, I really like you said, the financial literacy aspect because when you've never worked a job and, and everything has always been provided for you, you kind of fall into an expectation of it.

You know, you kind of take it for granted a hundred percent, you know? And I think. People kind of like, because of the ability to get loans and student loans and go into debt, people kind of just are like, ah, it's not that big a deal. Uh, you know, it's just kind of like, it's, it's there, it's already taken care of, and slowly over time, and a lot of people have this expectation too, well, I'm going into super debt because I'm gonna get a degree that makes me $120,000 a year, my first year.

You know, if I knew I could share a lot of stories of people who thought that and it didn't happen, uh, you know. Yeah. The, the issue, it's, it's a gamble, you know, it's a, a, a high risk, high reward, possibly if you spend all this time in education, you could get a job right off the bat. But I know people who months after graduation, sometimes even longer, haven't found a job.

And I know, yeah. A lot of people when they graduate college, like you said. They're waiting to find that big job that matches their degree and they don't want to get a job in the meantime and be like, oh, I just, I just spent all this time, got a degree in psychology or you know, biology or whatever it is, and now I'm waiting tables in the meantime because I can't get hired.

Yeah. But um, again, it's that long term picture pictures like, okay, what's a job I can get temporarily? Why, why I wait? Because you never know how long it's gonna be. Mm-hmm. And, and you can always leave. Don't get into something contracted, as long as it's something you can leave, say, Hey, um, a job reached out to me for my degree and I'm gonna move on.

People, employers understand that, especially a lot of these jobs that are typically, and commonly those transition jobs, like you said, bartending, waitering, maybe working at a clothing store, whatever it may be. Mm-hmm. So I think that's so important. And what would you say, I know we mentioned gap years, we talked a lot about college.

What about gap years? What do those do? It should be gap year, but gap year or gap and slash or gap year, plural. You know, what does that do to people's mental health, especially if they're mm-hmm. Not working a job. Even if they're just, what are they just doing? Uh, I know, just used like to say they're brain rotting or bed rotting or, uh, you know, I, I don't know if you've heard those before.

You know, um, it, you know, what role do video games and social media play in this? What role do parents play in this? Mm-hmm. Should we be against a gap year entirely as parents? Should we kind of put some limits or cautions with it and or encourage it with productivity in mind? Yeah. Long term planning.

What, what gap years? Yeah. Kind of got a reputation for them as, as we've kind of hinted at. So what, what is the truth about them and what have you witnessed for the past decade? Yeah. Um, well, gap years used to be just international, like super independent, you know, like high volunteer, kind of like giving back to humanity, almost like Peace Corps type vision, right?

Mm-hmm. And like only, you know, it was, it was not as accepted. Um, again, I think that COVID specifically has really blown that up because there's also so many stateside gap programs. Um, and when we say, when I say gap experience, I think that casa, uh, like a, a broader, it doesn't put a timestamp on it. Um, and it also just allows the word experience to kind of resonate because.

Gap as a word just means this is a filler, right? Like we're in between. But I think the experience itself is what are we trying to, what are we focusing on? And that's really, I would say, kind of the biggest trend in all of this is even in the last five years, young adults, more and more that are either applying for school or, and then even deferring or going to college and then taking a break, Hey, this isn't working out.

I wanna take a gap year. Right? Or I wanna do a gap semester. Gap is just having a plan. So kind of going back to your comment about kind of the older generations that are seeing this as, you know, somebody's using this label but then doing nothing. They're at home, they're gaming. That's not a gap experience.

That is like the quintessential failure to launch quote unquote, which I also hate that term, but that's still what a lot of people use. That's a different population altogether. If somebody wants to go to college or not, right, or they just graduated high school, let's take college off the table. They're just focused on, I need.

To, to gain specific skills. I want, I do want international experience, or I want work experience, or whatever the case may be. Stateside, you're seeking out either programs that pre-exist and you're plugging yourself into that little cohort and kind of going with whatever it is their, their programmatic or focused model is, or you're creating your own plan, which could literally include, I'm going to learn, I'm, I'm gonna be a bartender.

I, my future goal is, just out of curiosity, I would like to become a high-end mixologist. That's a career path, right? Like go, go work at your local bar. Set a timeline, be a sponge. Get as much as you can out of that experience and then see where it leads you or work there. And then also kind of network.

Hey bartender, can you like coworker, bartender, can you also tell me where you went to school or who you got your education and training from? Who should I connect with if I'm interested? Because it really continues to open doors. What if all of a sudden you're an, you have this like entrepreneurial bug and you're like, I want to be a mobile bar owner.

I'm going to market myself to the wedding or events industry, and now all of a sudden you go from literally being an 18-year-old that has an idea or an inkling of a vision and you just allow it to snowball into this full blown six figure job. Like, good for you. And does that have to be forever? No. So, and that's just one very tiny sliver of a path of an example of what could happen in that gap experience.

I think the biggest thing, kind of going back to your point, to your question of like how do parents support this or not, is gap years gap experiences, gap semesters, whatever term you wanna use. Totally. Okay. But the young adult and the parents, especially if the parents are involved with housing or financing or providing emotional, mental support during this time period, however, however long it is, you just need to communicate, um, what the expectations are.

Right. Especially as a parent, like you said, some parents, when their young adult turns 18, they get the boot, you're out. I'm done parenting you like you can figure it out on your own sink or swim. Um, and there are a lot of parents that are identifying that our generation of young people are taking a lot longer to mature.

So even at 18, they don't have the skills or they're not savvy enough to figure it out. So parents are like, okay, I'm not gonna give them the boot yet. I'm gonna give you a little bit more of a runway. We'll allow that runway to exist, but you have to be directly communicating. It can't be unspoken expectations 'cause that's where resentment or anger, irritability builds.

Right? And you're also setting your kid up for like, why am I getting yelled at? Right? Or why am I metaphorically, you know, having my hand slapped like, I didn't know that this was, you know, whatever it is that you wanted me to do. So just out with it, have the rules, like laid out expectations, and then let the young adult decide whether or not that's something that they wanna live with.

And if they do. Again, then set a timeline. Okay, parents, I'm gonna be here for just the semester, here's what I'm working towards. I'm hoping you can support me in x, y, z ways. And then we will reassess at the end. You know? So let's say hypothetically it's like, because we're at the start of the semester now let's, let's reconvene in December.

Uh, if you're, you know, again, and, and it's a negotiation, it's not an assumption of like, well, my parents are gonna let me live with them forever. No. At some point they do want to be empty nesters, or they do just wanna see each child that they're raising, leave the nest. My thing is that, yes, the maturity aspect is so important, but also the world isn't currently set up for a non-traditional path outside of college in the military.

Mm-hmm. If you are 18, let's say the day you take turn 18, or you graduate high school, your parents are kicking you out. Real realistically, there's no way for you to get a place to stay if you were in high school, let's say even you worked a job two summers or three summers and it was a minimum wage job.

How are you supposed to afford apartment when the average apartment now is like $1,500 for a single bedroom? Yeah. And they want to see, you know, five pay stubs or whatever it is that of, of a certain income. I mean now, okay, so you move out, all your money's gone to this apartment and the down deposit and getting it.

Now you, you can't eat, you can't find a job. I think it's like, it's for me, I dunno, I don't have kids yet and I haven't really thought about what happens when they turn 18. Am I gonna, you know, I don't think I'm a very like loving, family centered person, so I'd probably end up being taken advantage of where my kids live with me forever.

But, you know, the idea of like sending them away into a world that just like isn't set up for them is, is a little frustrating. And that was, that's something that's always bothered me that like. We don't really, at least in America, in, in, in our culture. Mm-hmm. As much as we love entrepreneurism and we, we push it.

I mean, America is built on, you know, dreams and, and fulfilling those. I mean, you're, it is kind of like military or college. Mm-hmm. Horse stripping, you know, there's not a lot of, uh, like there's no just like become an entrepreneur or, or, or work, yeah. You know, it's so, I think it's so hard because we don't set it up for our 18 year olds to be independent, to live on their own, you know?

So I think it's kind of unfair of us to try to expect that if we as a whole society and culture here, don't set it up where we say, Hey, um, like we made some kind of deal with apartments, where apartments were like, Hey, if you're 18 and if it's within one year of when you turn 18, um. You, you pay half rent or, or, or you don't have to do a down deposit or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. And you have to turn in paperwork that proof that you have a job, uh, or something. Right. Yeah. Some, like, we could set up a way where it's easier for them to be on their own. I think it's kind of difficult, you know, high school really pushes college or military, college or military.

Mm-hmm. And I feel like, you know, for people who are struggling to choose between one or the other, it can be a very difficult, it is a very stressful time. Yeah. And I, I do wanna talk about too, some, sometimes we push our children to college too fast and they end up regretting the decision. So what would you say is the difference mm-hmm.

Between college capable and college ready? And like, you know, being truly prepared for college, I, you know, a lot of people are like, oh. Lemme just go to community college and I'll, I'll, I'll figure it out. But I mean, the amount of people I've worked with who changed their major or minor five, six times ended up doing extra years of schooling, wasted so much time and money.

Yeah. I mean, it's really frustrating and it's like, or is, is your child at 18 or 19 or, or 17, 20, whatever it is, are they truly set up to know what they want to do for the rest of their life? Do they really? Mm-hmm. No, I mean, is it possible or are we always gonna switch degrees halfway through? What, can you speak on that aspect?

Yeah. Um, the answer is no. We don't know. At 18, just like hard and fast at 18, you have no idea what you wanna do. And if you're the type of person that's listening and somehow you did have an idea and you pursued it, and you like managed to make it all the way through to whatever it is that you're doing now successfully, you are a special breed.

You are not the norm, you are not the majority. Um, again, 18 identity development. You're forming relationships, right? Like you're, you're individuating from your parents. Who am I we're having these? Questions that we're pondering. And honestly, a lot of times that our interests, we need to know what we're interested in.

We pursue paths, but paths leave down different paths, right? Or you get a fork in the road and there's no wrong direction. It's just a choice. And then that choice, whichever direction you go in, leads you to a different direction. So it's that. I mean, that's really what life is. It's not this linear. Like, again, I, when I was born and when I was, you know, 17, 18, I knew exactly what I was gonna do, and life was seamless without hiccups or any problems.

That is just setting yourself up for some real, like whiplash with the adversity that you do end up encountering. So just to answer kind of the simply, the college ready versus college capable piece. College capable is what everybody, that's, that's what we see right now with everybody, right? Taking acts or SATs, getting certain scores means great.

You're on this path. Taking classes, earning certain. Grades or having a certain GPA or even like, you know, the accolades outside of the classroom. Great. You were doing all of these like, you know, superlative type activities and you were focused on leadership in some of them, or maybe you were, you know, doing art competitions and you weren't, weren't, uh, you won some awards, et cetera.

Right. Everybody thinks that that's the package that's necessary to make you quote unquote successful in college, which is it could not be further from the truth. What college is, is do you have the ability to identify when you're struggling and this, this kind of now segues into like truly somebody that's college ready?

Do you have the self-awareness to know when you are struggling and to be able to admit it? Mm-hmm. Right? First and foremost, if you have the ability to do that, then kind of from a critical thinking perspective, okay, here's this problem. Who or what do I need to do to fix said problem? And if it does require connecting with somebody to get an answer or to be guided in a certain direction, great.

You have to actually have the ability, like vulnerability to show up, Hey, I'm struggling, you have to admit it. Uh, can you help me? Asking for help is tremendously stigmatized. Um, from that perspective now, and this is kind of like the third question, now that you've gone through the process of asking for help, you get the information, can you then apply whatever it is that you've been given to make change to course correct.

Whatever the problem is to me. That right there will answer whether or not somebody's ready. And it's not I'm, I'm not even like, you can use that as an academic example, right? Right. Like, Hey, all of a sudden you failed this assignment. You're like, why did I fail it? I definitely can't fail the next one.

Otherwise, when you look at the syllabus, now all of a sudden I'm literally, you know, I have three, only three weighted assignments for this class. If I fail the next one, I fail the class. Right? So you have to be able to like understand the depth of that. Okay. So maybe I seek a tutor or maybe I talk with a professor, but once I have that information, now I have to apply it differently and then make change.

Obviously that takes time. It applies to socially. Right. Like, okay, here I am in this new environment and, and Hollywood makes it seem like college is awesome, but really what they leave out is that it's a lot of studying. It's a lot of self-initiating a schedule and like holding yourself accountable to do work outside of your like class schedule.

And yes, there is socializing, but gosh, we also live in a world where everybody's on their phone and it's really hard to make friends. And if you've never been rejected by friends, then it's easier to not put yourself out there. And that's, that's what college is. You have to actually like put in the effort to be engaged.

All that is to say that to me, kind of collectively falls in that college ready category. Is your child going to be able to sink or swim in the environment that is college and it's, we're talking about in the classroom and outside of the classroom, are they gonna be okay? And if you even have an inkling of a, I'm not sure they, they're gonna be able to handle it.

That to me is a like five alarm fire. Right. Don't pay. Especially if you're a parent and you're the one paying for, depending on the college, colleges are so expensive nowadays. If you're writing a check for 60 grand, I can think of a lot of different ways that I would rather spend 60 grand. Yeah. Than knowing that it's just money that you're literally throwing into a fire and watching burn because your child's gonna walk away with.

Zero college credits because either they managed to somehow meddle through the semester, but they got a 0.0 GPA or they started the semester and had to drop out and they missed the cutoff. So you get zero reimbursement for tuition. So it just, I mean, it's a real mess. Yeah, exactly. My blood pressure, just thinking about that, I, I could imagine, um, I would be my kid and I may not talk for a few days if that, you know, I could, I could not imagine, uh, you know, because like you said, that's a lot of money in time and energy to invest into all on a, I think my kid is ready.

Yeah. It is like, no, you need to know. And, uh, I, I'd love to summarize it as a. Or are they able to course correct. You know? Yep. Course corrected progress. 'cause we just talked about that in submarine leadership episode. And, uh, it's important, you know, and one of the issues I, I love you actually just kind of mentioned what I was gonna get into, which was you talked about the, call it the glamorization of college life, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, the, the misconception of it, right. Uh, especially on social media, um, but also just in movies like, um, I can't think of any college movies off the top of my head, but you know, it's all Yeah. Drinking and the parties and the football games, and same with the high school movies. Yeah. The same applies to the misconception of college degrees.

And here's what I mean. A lot of the people that I have worked with who said, Hey, Mr. Whiskey, the reason I changed my major and minor was because it wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. Mm. I found out I actually hate doing forensic science. I hate studying microbiology. I, I, I hate organic chemistry.

Mm-hmm. You know, whatever it is. And I think part of those expectations are like, how do most, I'll give you forensic science, right? Most people I know who are young men who want to be forensic science, the flash, I was watching The Flash and you know, Barry Allen was out there doing forensics work and they think that's what it's like.

And then they get into the lab in real life and they're like, this is boring. This is not the flash. You know, just to give an example, but there are plenty of other jobs, like so many people, how many people watch, oh, what is it? Blue Bloods or, or Criminal Minds or, um mm-hmm. You know, Chicago Fire Department.

And they, they think these dramatized it, they are dramatized purposefully for entertainment purposes. That's not to say, yeah. There aren't real aspects of it. Right. There's real science in these shows. There's real. Lifestyle, real mental health that they showcase, but mm-hmm. Thinking that your college experience is gonna be, that, that you're gonna be hands on.

I think what we need is like, I don't know if it's colleges going to high schools or, or their orientations. Having people who are really in the field talk about what it's really like. Like this is actually how it is. Yeah. And, and not, not make it pretty, like don't have a recruiting aspect around it. Have it, look, this is the truth.

If you're gonna be a nurse, you're gonna work not 12 hours, you're gonna work 16 hours every day. Mm-hmm. Everyone's always gonna be pissed off at you. No one's ever gonna be happy. You know, it's like, but I think specifically for the academic part, being upfront about that, like, Hey, I think a lot of people are just here.

Yeah. It's a lot of schooling, but it's really worth it now. 'cause I, I had this high paying job, but you need to step back into that moment of how did you feel when you were going through the schooling and can these high schoolers handle that part? Yeah, because we always put forward the, just get through the tough part and then now you can be living cushy.

Well, that tough part for some people could be, could, could break them, you know? So I think it's important just like kind of being realistic with those expectations. And, um, yeah. There's so much more I wanna ask you, especially like, um, about the role of relationships in all of this, but mm-hmm. We'll say that for another time.

Mm-hmm. Um, what I want to kind of focus in on as we wrap up here is what's kind of the purpose of calling you? If I'm a parent and my young adult is struggling, I mean, how would I even know to call you? What, what signs Yeah. Can I look for, to say, Hey, I really need to call Joanna Lilly and, and get her to, you know, work with my kid.

What are some of the things, because I think as, as parents, of course, we're gonna see our children struggle, uh, at, at points in their lives. Mm-hmm. How much struggle is too much? What, what is the point of intervention? Yeah. I so appreciate you asking this question because I think the most important piece, and I actually share this during like inquiry qu conversations when I have, when I have with parents and young adults, is like, you may not need me.

Right? First of all, you may not need my service, but then also I personally may not be a fit. Mm. Which is why we take all these steps to gather information, to kind of like almost do this unspoken interview, like a two-way interview. 'cause it really is allowing me the opportunity to be like, Hmm, do I wanna work with these parents?

Hmm. Do I really think that I can help this young adult? Um, all that is to say I, uh, oftentimes kind of going back to your question about like what would tip a parent off to be like, I think I need to reach out to Joanna if you are feeling like you have tried. A lot as a parent, right? Whether it's suggesting ideas or supporting like a lot of these reroutes or we'll call 'em false starts, whatever the case may be.

Um, if you are in a position where after trying it's not really working, that's when it would be like, okay, let's see if we can get some sort of outside support. I am completely neutral. I'm objective. I don't work for anybody but the family. So I, I think that's important to know. Like I have no agenda of like, oh, I need to meet some quota referring to a particular program or professional.

Like, I don't do that. That's unethical. I say that as a means to say that really when somebody comes to me, it's also, it's not just the parent realizing it, but it's also, there's usually a window of opportunity where the young adult is saying, well, uh, I, I could use some support. I don't really know. What I need, and I know I don't know what direction I'm going in.

And, and that could be said by a, you know, just recent high school grad, 18-year-old who's like, I have no idea where I should go. Or it can be the 20-year-old who's attempted college and really like, just limped it along or struggled. Doesn't matter. There's gotta be some sliver of like, contemplation of like needing some outside support and the whole family kind of onboard with we need to have one person guide us.

And that's usually kind of where the light bulb goes off, where parents are like, we gotta find somebody. And then, and then I hear if I had a dollar for every time a parent told me this, like, oh, I wish, we wish that we knew that you existed earlier. Or like, we wish that we knew. Yeah. Like how to find you faster or whatever the case first two kids exactly.

Could have used you for our older child. I'm like, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm doing what I can. I can only do so much. It's the algorithm pistachio. Yeah, exactly. Against me. Um, but yeah, that's, I would say, you know, sometimes there are parents that are also really motivated of like, I can do the research on my own. I can figure it out.

And if you have the time and energy and investment and you really wanna do that, and you also have, it's in the best interest of your, like, for your relationship between you and your child, for you to be that involved. Um, by all means. Like I said, not every family needs me and like, I hope it all works out.

And if you are a parent and you're like, I'm overwhelmed, tried what I've tried, it's not working, we could really use some support and that young adult is open and interested in, in having somebody kind of be the person that walks alongside them. That would be me. And my most important question, 'cause I know I would ask you this if I was a parent, you know mm-hmm.

Hiring you. Are you confidential or are you a mandatory reporter? How does that work if my child is experiencing suicidal ideation or confesses, stuff like that to you? Are you fully confidential or are you a mandatory reporter? Uh, how does that work? Yeah, it's actually a, a great question. I mean, technically I am a mandatory reporter.

However, in the almost 10 years that I've been doing this, I have not had to report anything. In fact, I've only ever had one client, ever where the therapist that was working with the young adult client that I had referred to had to, to do some reporting. And it was because some information was disclosed about like the home environment and, uh, there were younger children in the house, right?

I think because the majority of the clients that I work with too are either in the process of moving out with their parents or are temporarily living there, there has not been a situation, I mean, just full transparency, where that's been a necessary calling for me to be like, okay, like we really, I, I, I need to, I need to make sure that this is known.

Um, if anything, I would actually say the conversation is more. In terms of confidentiality discussed with the young adult where they're saying, are you gonna share everything that you and I talk about with my parents? And that is a completely separate conversation. Has nothing to do with mandatory reporting.

It has everything to do with me being like, what do you need? What, what have you experienced? How can I support you? And having this information and then taking it. I think ethically, if I was in a situation where a client was sharing some pretty substantial trauma and they're reporting it as my parent is still actively using or actively harming, or some, you know, someone in my life is harming others than I would be required to report.

But that would also be a discussion with my client. Okay. Yeah. I just know as, um, as a parental figure, that's what I would want to know as well when you're coming into my home and, uh, or to the zoom, you know, and, uh. One thing I did want to ask was, what is your relationship like with your clients in terms of do they like message you or email you and they're like, Ms.

Lily, I just graduated college, and like, thank you so much for all your help. Like, do you get kind of like success stories or like, you know, they do, they share parts of their lives with you later on and kind of let you know how you did. Yeah. And those are truly the like little nuggets that keep carrying me forward doing the work that I do.

Yeah. 'cause sometimes it really is a grind. Let's be real. Like this is hard work. Um, I, I send out maybe twice a year like a newsletter to alumni parents and I usually ask, like, there's always a question of like, Hey, I hope everything's well. Like, update me if there's something positive you wanna share.

And I would say I, I probably get a handful of responses twice a year from parents. Like, Hey, look, look how my kid is doing. My favorite ones though, are the young adults that I had really good relationships with. When, when we wrap up the end of kind of our, our agreed time working together, I do open that door or leave it open rather, I should say, I will encourage them.

Hey, just 'cause like we're, we're officially wrapped up, like, please. Keep me in your back pocket as a resource, like almost consider me like a lifetime mentor. If you need a cheerleader or somebody to encourage you. Or you know, when things are great and when things are low and you need like another like, redirect.

I'm here for you. There's no judgment. Um, and so when I get these positive, like I'll get, you know, a handful a year of young adults with like selfies or send in a quick text, Hey Joanna, I just signed up for a this race. I never thought I would've been able to do this. This is so cool. I'm in such a better place, blah, blah, blah.

You know? And so that, that is what drives me to continue doing what I'm doing because it is, it's, it feels a little bit like the starfish story, right? Like picking one up and throwing it back in the water. And, um, to me it, it does feel like I am making a difference for the young adults I'm working with, for sure.

Gotta love the selfies. Uh, you know, my. Little side note, my dad is convinced that he invented this selfie because back when they didn't have cell phones, they just had like the cameras, uh, there are pictures of him from like 1980 and whatever, and he would turn the camera around and take a picture of himself and he goes, son, I invented this selfie.

I did it before phones were even, you know, invented. And, uh, he is, he is convinced on that and I almost believe him on that one when he says he invented the question mark. That one. I don't believe that, that one, I don't even think he's convinced himself on that one. But, um, yeah. So Lily Consulting, that's, uh, you know, we're gonna have that in the description below your website link where people can check out.

You've got a ton of free resources for all kinds of useful information as well as I know you've got, um. I'll just mention it here. I kind of forgot mention it, which was your podcast. Would you like to tell us just, uh, a little bit about your podcast and kind of if it ties into what you do Yeah. And you should listen to it.

Yeah. Well, first and foremost, if you wanna listen to it, you can find it on any podcast playing platform or just go again, go to the website and that's where you can just access it that way. But, um, it's titled Success is Subjective. Honestly. It is. This is like a good ending note too for all of the conversations that we've had.

When I started my consulting practice, I felt like I was a broken record kind of as I was meeting new professionals, you know, providers, uh, talking with families or even kind of reflecting back on the experiences that I had working in higher education where it's just like, Hey, when you're 18 you don't necessarily know what you're gonna do and life's gonna like, have twists and turns and like it's okay to take a break from college or it's okay to not go to college at all.

And so I just really started to like. Uh, feel a little bit repetitive in the conversations, but more importantly, what fueled it was that as I would have, I'd be kind of expressing this or explaining this, then I would be hearing somebody on the other end, whether it was a therapist or a psychiatrist, or you know, like a program representative, whatever.

They're like, oh, that was my story. Like I totally took a break and here's what I did, and look at me now. And I was like, why don't we have more of this spotlighted? Is there a way that I can interview people and have this growing bank of, again, explained differently? Because no, no, si there's no single definition of what success looks like.

But then being able to paint a picture for a parent in less than 30 minutes, here's somebody's journey. And if that helps normalize that like your, your child wants to enlist in the military, that's great. Or if they wanna take a gap year, that's great. Or if they wanna like hit pause on college, that's okay.

Get curious rather than drive like whatever agenda the parent has. And so I am over 300 episodes in, um, 300 episodes of people telling their story of ways in which life took them on twists and turns and they had no idea at 18 what they wanted to do. And so you get to hear these really cool stories of, Hey, I thought I was gonna be, you know, insert job title and here's what I'm doing now based on all of these other jobs that I've had along the way.

And it's just been, um, a very fun passion project, but it also just totally normalizes the work that I do in these one-on-one consulting sessions. Yeah, I agree. I think, uh, one of the most beautiful things that I've experienced through podcasting is hearing so many stories of like the untraditional path.

And it's beautiful. I, I know when I was a kid watching America's Got Talent and other shows like that with my family, every time some guy was like, I dropped out of Harvard with a full ride to be a, a piano player or to do magic, my parents hated that. It, it, they, they, they were so upset and I was always like, woo.

Yeah. I always supported it. 'cause I always wanted to be. One of those people who was like, not the military, not the college. Like, we're going to make something crazy happen and we're gonna chase it. Mm-hmm. I, I always loved seeing people achieve their dreams and it's not easy, you know, it's not easy. I'm sure in 300 episodes you've heard some, some rough stories.

Yeah. But at the end of it, that, that success of their, their, like, watching those people on stage, they gave, they gave up everything to just go compete. Mm-hmm. And do ventriloquism or magic or h hooping or, you know, in, in our field to start a podcast or to, to write and publish a book that they didn't know if it was gonna go anywhere.

I think it takes a lot of commitment and, and bravery, and I love that you say success is subjective, right? Because mm-hmm. Yeah, I know that what my parents have always considered successful and what I consider successful are two very different things. Yeah. You know, um, and I think that goes all around even with a podcast.

You know, I've talked to so many podcasters, you know, for me it's not about how many downloads I get, it's about how many people wrote in and said this episode changed their life. So, yeah. And, and just for everyone listening, 300 episodes, uh, less than 4% of all podcasters right now for the past like year, this has been a statistic.

Less than 4% of podcasters actually make it that far. So Ms. Lily, congratulations on that. It's not easy. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. People don't realize how many headaches come with podcasting. Congratulations on 300 and, and thank you 300 more or a thousand more, however you know any. But, um, we're gonna have your podcast and your website and description below for people to check out.

So ladies and gentlemen, if. Take a look today. My, my call to action for you is look at your young adults, you know, whether you have 1, 3, 5, 9, however many kids you have. Look for those signs we kind of mentioned and like mm-hmm. Especially those, those young adults you have who just always say they're fine, or always just smiling.

Every time I've had a suicidal sailor come to me, they have always been the happiest, hardest working person. Mm-hmm. It does not discriminate. You know that that struggle can be hidden. So maybe it's academics, maybe it's relationships, maybe it's mental health, maybe it's moving. There are a lot of stressors in our lives, especially as young adults in those transitioning years.

So take a step back and see if there's, see how your child is doing and, and ask those questions. Communicate, find out how they're doing and take a look and see if maybe you're one of the issues. That's, uh, that can all be the case. But Ms. Lily, thank you so much for sharing your time today and uh, I really appreciate everything you said.

I think it was really insightful. So thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me.