Unlearning Addiction With The Sinclair Method: Exploring Naltrexone

*Please note that what is discussed in this episode does not cure addiction but is used as a part of recovery.

Today, I sit down with Katie Lain, founder of Thrive Alcohol Recovery, to talk about one of the most unique methods for overcoming alcohol addiction I’ve ever encountered — the Sinclair Method. Ms. Lain walks us through her personal journey from years of daily binge drinking to complete freedom using this medication-based treatment. With over a decade of struggle, Ms. Lain discovered a scientifically-backed approach that doesn’t require abstinence to begin and actually helps the brain unlearn alcohol-dependence through a drug called Naltrexone.

Unlike traditional AA or inpatient rehab, this method works by blocking the brain's reward system during drinking, which leads to reduced cravings over time. Ms. Lain explains how Naltrexone targets the opioid receptors in the brain and rewires the brain’s association with alcohol. We discuss how this approach empowers individuals to regain control over their habits without shame, secrecy, or complete sobriety right away. She also shares the differences between this and older treatments like Antabuse, which work through punishment rather than rewiring.

We go deeper into how Thrive Alcohol Recovery offers a private, judgment-free space with coaches, doctors, group calls, peer support, and structured education that adapts to each user's journey. Ms. Lain outlines what pharmacological extinction looks like — a place where alcohol no longer controls your decisions. 

https://www.thrivealcoholrecovery.com/a/2147509800/p6LKhYJp

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Thrive Alcohol Recovery: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple nus. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I've done a lot of shows on addiction recovery, especially alcoholism. But in all that time, no one has come to me with what our guest today has a method of recovery that. I did a little research into, and I was just honestly shocked that it's not more prevalent based on how it works and, and what it does, which I'm gonna say for our guests to share with us today.

But that being said, it's so interesting. I find that as I have done this show, I have come across so many different forms and methods of recovery. Again, we always say, and I always put forward. To each their own. You know, everyone is different. Some people like the AA style, some people prefer or need rehab.

Some people I've met plenty of people who just quit that day and they were fine. Everyone is different, both physically, emotionally, and mentally. And so today what I want to do is present another method to all of y'all who are struggling or know someone who is struggling and you've tried a lot of different things and nothing's working well.

Here is. The Sinclair method and some other information and stuff. We're gonna get into Ms. Katie Lane. So great to have you here today to present such a topic, like I said, that isn't well known. And I'm sure just from reading from your bio, I know that you also were shocked by that especially having gone through it.

So love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah. Well thank you for having me with Mr. Whiskey and also just for being open to talking about this this treatment, it just changed my life starting in 2017 after I struggled with alcohol for 10 years. And when I first learned about it, I was like, no way.

Like, this is too good to be true. There's no way this is a thing. But upon further research and actually going through the treatment myself, it is. True. And it really is saving lives. And it's been around for over 30 years now, but most people still don't even know that it exists. So I guess just a little bit of my story, I struggled with drinking basically the entire decade of my twenties.

I'm in my late thirties now, and what started as kind of like party drinking, you know, I had a fake ID and you know, when I turned 21 just kind of like binge party drinking. That quickly escalated probably within a year to me kind of becoming a daily binge drinker. And at the time I just thought it was something people my age were supposed to do and I figured I would kind of outgrow it in the future when I, you know, got older.

But to my surprise, a couple years after really drinking a lot I tried to take a break. I tried to take seven days off of drinking 'cause I was kind of getting scared. I'm like, I'm drinking a lot. I need to detox my body, essentially, I. I remember taking that seven day break and it was extremely difficult to do.

I made it the seven days, but I genuinely wanted to drink every day. I was fighting an urge to drink every day. I was annoyed that I wasn't drinking and finally by day eight I was just like back at binging again. And I was like, okay, well this is definitely more than just phase, I think. And you know, that kinda led me on a.

Path of years of just, okay, I'm gonna quit and then I'd quit and then I'd relapse, and then I'd try quitting again. Try doing all kinds of different ways to overcome the addiction. And I I. I just couldn't get it figured out. And it seemed like the harder I tried to quit, the worse my drinking became.

And I just remember before I learned about the Sinclair Method treatment, which I'm gonna talk about today I was just sitting, I remember at my kitchen table just feeling kind of defeated that maybe this was something I was just gonna have to deal with my whole life, like being an alcoholic, maybe I would never get this issue under control.

I'd had several rock bottoms, you know, thinking, okay, these are the moments that are gonna. Kind of wake me up and cause me to finally quit and they didn't. And I've heard people say the rock bottom just keeps getting lower. And I think that that is true to some extent, and that's how people can end up dying from something like this.

But just kinda like 1 0 1 of what the Sinclair method is. So first of all it's called the Sinclair Method 'cause it's named after the researcher Dr. David Sinclair, who discovered it back in the nineties. And it's been research since. It's literally has decades of research behind it. And what this protocol is it's extremely unique in that it's not an abstinence based protocol.

If you know the majority, I would say 99.9% of treatments out there for alcohol addiction. Kind of require abstinence is the first step toward healing or, you know, overcoming the addiction. And with this treatment, you actually start it while you're still drinking and you incorporate in medicine called naltrexone.

That's generic, non-addictive, been around for decades, very cheap. Been approved by the FDA for alcohol since the nineties as well. You take this medicine before drinking and what it's doing is essentially helping the brain unlearn alcohol addiction. A real cornerstone of David Sinclair's research is the notion that alcohol addiction is actually a learned behavior inside the brain.

And once it's learned, it's very hard to. Reverse it. That's why you hear like once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic and one drink is never enough, that kind of thing, which is true to some extent, for sure. Absolutely. Because the brain has changed. But with this treatment, it's just so unique and I wanna dive into it more and answer questions you have.

But over time what happens is. The brain has essentially learned an alcohol addiction and we learn it 'cause alcohol's very, very rewarding for the brain. And what this medicine is doing is it's muting some of the rewarding effects of alcohol. It doesn't make you sick like Antabuse. It doesn't make drinking an Unpleasurable experience.

It just dampens the reward a bit. When we repeatedly drink and don't get the same level of huge reward, the brain just starts to become less interested. For a lot of people, they're like, yeah, I could drink, but I'd rather like have a coffee or something. And it's a process. It's not like a quick fix and there's, you know, more to it than just popping a pill.

A lot of us have habits and things around drinking, but. Man, it's life changing when the brain is no longer operating in alcohol addiction and people can think more clearly. They're not craving alcohol if and when they drink, they have more control. They can stop after a couple drinks. And these are kind of all results that build after someone's been on the treatment for a while.

Yeah, the addiction is a lot of complicated moving parts because we've talked in other episodes about. How with the laser acupuncture episode that I hosted, it was, Hey, we can get rid of the physical need to drink the endocrine systems, you know, and endorphin levels. We can take care of that with this laser acupuncture, but at the end of the day, without the physical cravings, if you still crave it mentally and emotionally, if you have unhealed trauma that you're trying to numb.

Right. Your body could no longer be physically craving it, but you're still gonna go drink. On the other hand, you could you know, get over it mentally and emotionally and you could go to therapy or go to a faith-based practice or whatever it is, and still have the physical craving. So it's taking care of all those parts.

And I think, like you said, having as much. Help or as least temptation as possible by numbing, that rewarding effect makes it all the more easier. Like you said, there's still a lot going on. Mm-hmm. But it makes it easier. Now you mentioned a different type of medication that I've heard before that I'm not too familiar with that makes it.

Worse. I don't remember the name of AM Ambi. Anabuse Anti, yeah. Could you tell, for those of us who aren't familiar, could you kind of explain that? You kind of made a comparison there too. You said it makes alcohol, unrewarding makes it kind of like a bad experience. I. Yeah, so a lot of people confuse Naltrexone, which is what's used for the Sinclair method.

They confuse it with Antabuse. Antabuse is the medication that was like the OG medication for alcohol addiction. And to be honest, I've worked in this field since 2018 and a lot of doctors I work with don't even use Antabuse anymore 'cause they kind of consider it. Inhumane. But with that said, I hear from people who are using it and they say it helps them stay sober.

So for me, I'm like, if we have a hundred different options to offer people, like that's ideal. So people don't feel like, you know, I hear from people all the time, oh, aa, I keep trying, going back and failing. It's like, well, clearly it's not working for you. Like there are other options, but a lot of people don't know that.

But anyway. Anabuse is a medicine that people can get it implanted in them or they can take a medication and if somebody drinks when they have anabuse in their system, it makes them physically ill. They're like vomiting and it can even, I think there's risk of it even causing people to die. I think the risk is low.

Mm-hmm. But it's something that just makes you so physically ill that if you were to drink on it. It would be an awful experience. And I've just heard stories of people trying to drink on Anabuse or if they have an implant trying to dig it out of their skin. 'cause again, the craving is still there. It's not addressing the craving, but they just know it's like this negative reinforcement if they, they drink on it.

Whereas Naltrexone is different. It just like, some people start the medication naltrexone and they're drinking on it and they're like, I'm not even noticing any difference. Like is this normal? And everyone responds differently, but the change is subtle enough that it's not for a lot of people, super obvious that they even are drinking on a medicine, but the results really build over time.

'cause as you said, like the reward center and the brain is not getting the same level of endorphin and dopamine, and so gradually the brain is just unlearning alcohol, is that primary reward. So they're two different medications for alcohol addiction. Completely different. Yeah, kind of the opposite one is just less rewarding, one is punishment, right?

Yeah. And so I think, like you said, to each their own, and I, I do think it's interesting, right, that it's interesting the mind body relationship where, I mean, you would think, oh, I get really sick because of that, of that pill, so I won't drink. But I mean, just alcohol alone. Has negative side effects and your body doesn't say, we need to stop this.

Right? Because you are in charge of your body and you say, Hey we're gonna drink this, whether it hurts me or not, right? Same with drugs, right? There are plenty of people in the end stages of alcoholism and, and drug abuse who are physically sick. They've lost weight. They are, you know, throwing up and they still do it because even if it hurts them.

So I think that whole punishment system. Can be effective to a degree. Now you talk about numbing, the reward system. Can you kind of break down the details for us? Especially as someone who went through that, what does that mean? Does that mean because a lot of people, like you said, drink they start drinking socially.

And for some people, a lot of young people especially from my generation and a generation below me drink because. They, they have a cooler version of self quote that comes out when they drink or they're less socially anxious or they, they feel more relaxed. Are those some of the kind of reward systems that you're talking about, or how does that feel?

I. Yeah. And kind of just back to what you were saying about people being like in that end stage and like they're literally sabotaging their health and people are, they continue to drink. Like, something I wanna just respond to that briefly, is that for people to know that alcohol addiction is not a logical.

Issue. Yeah. It's impacting a part of the brain that makes it more primitive and like this survival need. And so that's why a lot of us who struggle with alcohol will be like, why am I doing this to myself? Why? Why do I keep, you know, drinking in this way even though I'm destroying my health? It, it's because it's this like primitive survival urge to do it.

The logical, you doesn't want to do it, but it's this underlying urge, right? So just wanna say that. 'cause some people think, well, if you have a problem with alcohol, just quit drinking. And that seems like the logical, safe thing to do, but Right. It's just. Not that easy. Once the brain has changed, but yeah, so, when Naltrexone is dampening the reward when somebody drinks on it, so as we drink and kind of viewing it as a learned behavior, we are learning to associate alcohol to all of these different life events and circumstances.

For example, I myself was a daily drinker, binge drinking on the weekends. But usually during the week I couldn't stop or start drinking until after 5:00 PM so my brain kind of learned. Really to enhance the craving for alcohol at 5:00 PM 'cause that's when it was anticipating the reward. And then on the weekends, yeah, I would start at 11:00 AM So I would like wake up just like ready to start drinking.

'cause that is kind of what I taught my brain. I work with other people who drink once or twice a week or once or twice a month. They're fine the other time, but when they drink, man, it's a bender and they go overboard. And then there's people who drink in response to stress, to anxiety, to celebrate.

And everyone has a very unique relationship with alcohol and different reasons why they drink. And so with this medication treatment, what I love about it is it really meets you where you're at. Like when I work with people and what my doctor told me is like. Don't try to make any changes in your drinking.

Like don't even try to reduce your drinking in the first month. Just start the medication before your usual drinking times. And as you're doing that, you're doing the behavior. For example, you had a stressful day and you take naltrexone and drink. Your brain is learning that I had the trigger of stress, but I'm not quite getting the same level of reward or relief that I'm used to getting from alcohol.

We, when we repeatedly drink in these, you know, familiar triggering situations, but the brain isn't getting the same level of reward that it's anticipated and that it induced the craving for, that's where the craving for alcohol starts to fade away. 'cause the brain is learning. Mm-hmm. Like. Hey, I had that trigger, but I didn't get the same reward.

Okay, what else can I look for to kind of re reward or relieve myself? And so it's this process of gradually unlearning, you know, these drinking behaviors we have in response to different emotions, situations, life events, times of day over time and kind of repeatedly drinking on the medicine in those settings to teach the brain that alcohol's no longer the same reward.

But to your point. Earlier when you were talking about like the laser acupuncture therapy, which is amazing. I don't know a ton about that, but that sounds really cool. But if the craving isn't there, the behavior can still persist. And so I work with people sometimes they'll be like, I don't even wanna drink, but I'm just doing it 'cause it's what I do every day at five o'clock.

And that's where kind of what we say in our program is like meeting the medicine halfway. Like the medicine is helping get rid of that desire, which makes it so much easier to be like. I don't feel like drinking. So what? It's 1,000,001 other things I can do tonight. You know, and it's a process of learning these new habits, but the brain loves to learn.

So if you're feeding it, you know, different information or experiences, it will adapt those as habits as well. Yeah. And it's not just alcohol. I mean, you look at, when you wake up, when you go to bed, like yes, you can get those into the same times. And, and same, you know. Same with if you always have, you know, a certain type of dessert before bed every time, or if you always wake up in even the bathroom, you know?

Yeah. Go in the same time every day before work or you know, same with coffee or any substance. So it's interesting that people don't, they view alcohol as something different. You know, they don't view it as a learned behavior because they think because it has more power than just other stuff, but it's the same habit formation, it's the same body and stuff.

So I think that's so interesting. I. Like how you mentioned, even knowing the difference between the weekdays and the weekends, you know, that's really, it just amazes me how powerful the mind is and how powerful the body is and, and the connection between them. And then you mentioned a program, so I want to bring up Thrive Alcohol Recovery and, and what you're doing with that and kind of share, I know you mentioned.

How long did it take you and personally, 'cause it's kind of different for everyone. How long did it take for you to stop you drinking? Yeah, I would actually love to kind of paint the picture of what the treatment looks like for people. 'cause it does vary person to person. And I've mentioned that it's a longer term journey, but, what's really cool, and I will say first of all, like what I have loved about the Sinclair method from day one and I like share this passion with people I work with, is that for so long I felt like a victim to my alcohol addiction. Like my cravings and my drinking were just controlling my life. And to be honest, the notion in aa, and I know this helps people, so I don't say it to like disrespected at all, but for me to be powerless over alcohol, which is kind of a tenant of aa.

It just gave me permission to do what alcoholics do, and it kind of, incentivized me to drink. Well, I can't control it, so I might as well just like go for it if I'm an alcoholic. So what's really cool about this treatment is, and almost anybody like can understand the 1 0 1 of how alcohol addiction is learned and how it can be unlearned and how the brain is such a key part of this.

I think that. Oftentimes just gets overlooked in traditional treatment. Like we measure success by how many days someone's sober. Maybe they're not drinking on the outside, but what the heck is going on in their brain? Are they like tortured by cravings? Are they miserable inside? 'cause they wanna drink and they can't, and.

You know, for me that was just like a barrier to a lot of healing. So just to start to say like, something that's really cool about this treatment is you understand what's going on in your brain and you realize, oh my gosh, like I can actually unlearn this. I'm not permanently stuck. This is treatable. And like you talked about, it's like, you know, with the help of Naltrexone, we can unlearn these drinking habits and learn other habits.

Our, our brain and our behaviors are, you know, we love to learn new habits to become more efficient. So for me, I was on the treatment protocol for a year, and that's about the average timeframe. It takes most people to reach the end goal of this treatment, which is called pharmacological extinction of the alcohol addiction.

Meaning the addiction has been extinguished from the brain through pharmacology or through the medication. And when that happens kind of the. Three common signs you see is that most people are spending their time com like alcohol free most or all of the time without having to force it. They just genuinely don't feel like drinking anymore.

If and when they do drink, they have control. They're drinking at low risk levels, you know, one to two drinks, and they're stopping. And they're no longer craving alcohol. So if they drink, it's like, I'm going out to dinner on Friday, it's an Italian dinner. I'll have a glass of wine with it. Not like, oh my gosh, I had a stressful day.

I need a glass of wine. The brain is unlearned at being a compulsive behavior. And so one key thing with this treatment is it, it doesn't require abstinence. Even once someone reaches extinction, if they wanna keep drinking following the protocol, they just take Naltrexone beforehand. And I work with a lot of people who.

They've reached that extinction point. They're completely free. They don't crave it, but they drink once a week or once a month. They have a glass of champagne or wine or beer or whatever, and they stay in a place where they're drinking moderately. 'cause they continue to follow the protocol. It prevents the brain from relearning the disorder.

So for me, I started it as a daily binge drinker. Easily could drink a bottle of wine at night. That was me kind of like restricting myself. If I kept it to one bottle, usually I would have two. Or what I did is I would stash. Stash whiskey actually in my cabinet behind my supplements, ironically enough.

And I would sneak polls of it when my husband wasn't in the room, so I'd be drinking a glass of wine in front of him from my bottle, but then like I would pull whiskey or sometimes vodka. So that was like a daily very binge drinking where I would like. Nearly black out most nights and just like wake up feeling terrible and just barely, barely functioning.

So I started the protocol and in the first week I had an alcohol free day, which was shocking for me. 'cause as a daily drinker, even one alcohol free day was very hard to do. But it was like, oh, I just don't feel like drinking today. I. Then probably about a couple weeks in, I just knew something was different 'cause I was thinking about drinking less.

I used to start thinking about drinking at 11:00 AM every day. Like, am I gonna drink? I shouldn't drink. Do I have alcohol at home? Looking forward to it, romanticizing it. I just noticed like, oh my gosh, I'm not thinking about drinking as much. Like my mind feels more expansive and free. I didn't realize how much I was thinking about it until that started to happen.

And then as I progressed through the treatment, I started to have more consistent alcohol free days. You know, I'd have one day a week. Probably within a, the couple first couple weeks on the treatment, I was consistently having one alcohol-free day a week, and then it built to two and three and four and I was drinking less.

When I was drinking. I could no longer finish a bottle of wine anymore. I wasn't, I never blacked out again from the moment I started the treatment. And by about months four to six, I was probably having. Three drinking days a week, not really getting blackout, maybe drinking, you know, a few glasses of wine, but stopping after that and then spending the other days alcohol free.

The alcohol free days just continued to build from there and nine months in I was drinking about one glass of wine. Once a month I'd go out to dinner and have that glass of wine and just, that would be it. I did that for a few more months and then I ended up quitting drinking after about a year on the treatment.

I tell people I quit drinking by accident 'cause I never intended to quit drinking. Like the last time I drank was in 2018 and it wasn't gonna be my last time. I just. You know, I was gonna drink again. I don't know when, but then four months went by and I was like, I haven't drank in four months. Like, I just don't even want to, I wasn't trying to not drink, I just didn't.

And I haven't drank since, but like, it's not something that I'm like, I can never drink again. If I wanted to drink tomorrow, I would just take Naltrexone before and probably have a drink and they would be very uneventful. Yeah, that's, I think that's really interesting. And like you said, almost strange to say that you can still drink while, while doing it and afterward.

And so do you know scientifically how it works? Like how does it block the, you know, endo endorphin reward cycle, and are there any, you know, negative effects to this long or short term? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I know it is kind of like counterproductive, just to your point about being able to drink still as part of the treatment, which some people like, I definitely get pushback on that.

But one of our therapists in our program, she's like, drinking isn't the problem. Excessive drinking is the problem. Yeah. So if someone can get to a place where they're not even getting drunk, they're having a glass of wine, it's not a huge deal. And I mean in, in my view, everyone's different. But yeah.

To your question about how it works. So, naltrexone is an opiate antagonist, medication or blocker. Meaning it blocks opioid receptors in the brain that are part of the reward system that would otherwise get the, your brain produces endorphins when you drink, and those endorphins would latch onto that receptor, and that just creates that reinforcement, that learned behavior of alcohol equals reward, alcohol equals reward.

You do that enough times, your brain really learns to like alcohol, and that's where the brain changes and starts to crave it more and drink more, and the tolerance builds. So with Naltrexone, it's. Blocking these receptors. It's kind of like a keyhole and it's putting a key in these receptors so the endorphins aren't latching on, they're just kind of bouncing off.

And so the connection of alcohol equaling a reward is starting to break. And so, over time, you know, you do the behavior and you're not getting the same reward in your brain. And so the brain learns it. Long-term use of naltrexone. There's no known long-term effects from it. There's actually research that's come out recently for people who even have advanced stage liver diseases are recommended to take Naltrexone.

It can be an anti craving medication. If they are still drinking, you know, sadly some people are still drinking at that stage. It can help them to perhaps drink less. Naltrexone is a non-addictive medication. Sometimes people say, oh, you're just changing one drug for another. Right. But naltrexone, it's like.

Taking a Tylenol, there's no benefit or addictive qualities to it whatsoever. Mm-hmm. And so it's really not, and what's interesting about this protocol is the longer someone's on it, the less they're taking the medication. I started as a daily drinker, so I was taking it every day and eight months in, I was taking it once a month.

Okay. Becomes almost a as necessary kind of kind of thing. Yep. And I'm just curious, I'm not a drug expert by any means, but just talking about that, that blocking, does this work for drugs as well as alcohol? Because I know drugs and alcohol affect the body in similar ways, but also different, and I'm not sure how they're received by the body.

If you could use this. If you're trying to quit opioids or heroin or, or whatever it may be, if it blocks the same receptors or not. Yeah, so Naltrexone being an opiate antagonist, it was actually originally used for opioids because if someone is on like a daily Naltrexone for example, and they try to take opiates, what happens is they're not gonna get the high, they're not gonna feel anything from the opiates, which is something to be aware of.

Like if someone's on Naltrexone for alcohol and they need pain medicine 'cause they break their arm or they're getting surgery, they will need to communicate to their doctor. There's okay. Protocols that can be followed to use other pain medicines or higher doses. But originally it was used for opioid use disorder for that reason.

But it was soon after started to be researched for alcohol. 'cause alcohol operates in the same reward center. Yeah. It's also been researched to help with a lot of other things, including cigarettes cigarette addiction marijuana use disorder, sex or porn addictions, binge eating disorders, gambling, addiction.

I think that's all that I am aware of, but basically, these kind of behavioral or addictive patterns operate in the same reward center in the brain. And so using naltrexone can help interrupt that. In fact, I have a. Channel on YouTube where I do success stories of people who did the treatment. And one gentleman I interviewed, he did it for his alcohol addiction, not realizing it would help him with his compulsive sex disorder.

And it, it helped with both. And he told his testimony of that. I mean, I think that was very brave for him to admit that he had a. Sex addiction. But he was surprised like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize it could help with this as well. So yeah, it, it, I think more research needs to be done 'cause it's definitely been more research for alcohol, but it's really exciting in the ways it can help with other things.

I don't know if I mentioned binge eating disorder as well, but that's another thing. Yeah. And in 10 years from now, as the younger generations get more addicted to doom scrolling and social media, it might have to be used before going on TikTok. So yeah, we'll see how that works. I think it's definitely very interesting and again, very surprising that it's not well known.

And, and just again, how did you discover it? I learned about it through a TEDx talk, which is still on YouTube. Last I checked, I think it had 5 million views. Just someone sharing their story with it. They're actually a sci-fi actress from the eighties. She's still around today, but she opened up about her addiction and she learned about this after really struggling with alcohol for a long time.

So that's how I learned about it, but it's still wildly underutilized and unknown. There was a recent article that said. Plus than 2% of people who would benefit from naltrexone are actually offered it. There's just this huge lack of awareness. Lack of adoption. Mm-hmm. You know, the current treatment system is really set up for like detox and then abstinence.

It's not set up to like start a treatment while you're still drinking, but the cool thing about this protocol is like you can do it from home, you can do it privately. You don't have to like uproot your life and go to rehab or anything. It can be done. Yeah. On from home. If someone wants to get it and start this, how would they go about doing that?

Yeah, so I mean, I run Thrive Alcohol Recovery, where we have a private online program centered around this treatment. We work with doctors in all 50 states who specialize in it and prescribe nice. And then we have a program that kind of walks people through the protocol. It's all private, it's all online.

It can be anonymous. People can change their names if they like to, and they're so we're definitely an option. But, you know, technically any doctor can prescribe this medication. So if someone wants to ask their doctor for it, they can. The. Challenges, and this happened to me and happens to a lot of people.

Like your general doctor is generally not aware of naltrexone and may not be comfortable prescribing it. So often people will ask their doctor and their doctor will say no, or they're only prescribe it for a month, which makes no sense. Or they'll prescribe it differently than the Sinclair method. But that is an option.

If people have a good relationship with their doctor, they can talk to them about it. First step is getting Naltrexone, but then for sure understanding the protocol and how it works and what to expect and all of that. Right. And you talked about Thrive Alcohol Recovery being kind of a community for people who are all doing the same thing.

What role would you say community plays in going through this treatment? I would say it's a pretty significant piece of healing. And I just say that from not only my experience, but what I hear from our members. Something that happens sometimes. I did it and I was just chatting with some of our members last night, who did this as well.

So we, when we have alcohol addiction, we're so like. We feel a lot of shame. We feel a lot of isolation. Maybe we drink alone and we just don't wanna talk about this problem with people. And so sometimes people will get the medication like from their doctor, for example, and they're like, okay, I'm just gonna do this by myself.

And while that does work for some people, like, especially if they're highly motivated and they've been working at this for a while, for other people, what I hear them say is that they just either retreat back into old patterns, they stop taking the medication, they don't know what to expect. Maybe they're doing it.

Incorrectly or they just lose motivation for it. So like to be able to connect with others who understand what you're going through. Like one of our members last night, he was like, I love my wife. She's so supportive, but she just does not understand like my struggles with alcohol, which is true. Like if someone hasn't gone through it, they can't understand, you know, what it's like to live with it.

And so. Connecting with others who are in a similar boat and using the same treatment and at different stages. It's really encouraging and edifying and just to, you know, stick with it. With, with it being a year long protocol, motivation is gonna, it can come and go right. You know, there can be discouraging times, but for most people, like when I say a year, they're like, what?

What's happening? It's like a weight loss journey where you see these really positive changes and you know that something is different. You're drinking less, you're thinking about it less. You're having alcohol free days, you're pouring a third drink and not finishing it. Just seeing these really encouraging changes along the way so people know that something is changing and to have.

Coaches or peers to be able to like encourage you in that and kind of point that out for you and help you know what to expect? It can, it can really help. Right. And not only will motivation come and go throughout the year, but also life events happen. You know, loss of loved ones other stuff, maybe getting laid off from your job that can cause, you know, people to be more tempted to drink or whatever it may be, both good and bad.

And so I think having accountability is so important. And like you said, people who understand so. What does everyone in your community like benefit from not just the connection with each other, but what else do you offer? Yeah, so we have a lot of different resources and support based on what the individual wants and where they're at.

So, kind of one of the popular things we have are our groups group support calls, where coaches facilitate calls multiple times a week where people just check in, share where they're at, ask questions, connect with others. It's kind of a casual round table format and people can just listen in or share and get support from coaches and peers.

We also bring in naltrexone, expert doctors and therapists and counselors to lead workshops and q and a sessions to help people understand, you know, the psychology and the habitual side of drinking. For example, we have one coming up later this month where a psychologist is diving into our motivation behind over drinking.

Like, why are we drinking so much? And what's the motivation there? And then we have a lot of video lessons and articles from our coaches that really just walk someone through the protocol, like what it is, how it works, how to do it correctly and then also understanding like how your brain learns alcohol addiction, how this treatment helps it unlearn it, how you develop new habits with the intention really that like knowledge is power and you're not a victim to your alcohol use issues.

In fact. Just by understanding what's going on in your brain, understanding how to change habits you can actually completely heal from this and reverse it. And then the community is pretty active as well. We have like a private community feed where people are posting and asking questions and coaches are sharing tips and things like that.

So, it's really interactive where. Basically when someone joins, they can have unlimited access with a coach through private messaging. They can hop on groups, they can even get paired up with a peer, kind of like an AA sponsor, but they get one-on-one peer support with someone in our program. And not everyone uses everything.

Some people just join for the videos in the community. Some people love the groups. Some people do one-on-one. So it's really up to the individual, like what they feel is best for, for them and their journey. Right. And we're gonna have your website and description below for everyone to check out the program, the features, the resources to a way to contact you and, and all of that.

Like you said, it's kind of a take what you need. And there's other stuff too if you, if you want it by, I think, like you said, that accountability, that program and, and being with people who know about it. So as we wrap up here, what would just be your final message to the people who are maybe.

Struggling with alcohol and addiction or a loved one who knows someone who is, and they're still just a little bit skeptical. What would be your final message to them? I. Yeah. You know, I want people to know that alcohol addiction can happen to anybody. Like it's just a learned behavior in your brain and by repeatedly drinking, A lot of people develop an addiction sort of by accident.

Yes, we are putting the alcohol to our mouth and drinking it, but I think a lot of people like me aren't aware just how addictive it can be and how. Two glasses of wine in the evening, no big deal can turn into two bottles in, you know, a pretty short amount of time. And then we're wondering like, how the heck did we get here?

And so realizing it's not a reflection of who you are as a person. Like the people I work with are amazing. They're successful, they're parents, they're business owners, they're incredible individuals, but their brain has just learned this alcohol use disorder and. I want people to know that it's quite treatable.

This is not, you know, a method I invented or that it's woo woo. There's actually a lot of research studies if you go on Google Scholar or PubMed or even just Google the Sinclair Method. It's been getting some more mention in news publications lately. Like very well Mind or Psychology Today, or even PBS NewsHour.

It's, it's getting some attention there, which is great. But for people to know that, you know, this is. Quite treatable and it can actually be reversed. And it doesn't have, you don't have to wait for it to get to a place where it's like, oh, my life is a complete mess and I'm just a total alcoholic. And at that rock bottom moment, you can get the treatment started sooner than that.

If it's mild, if you are just questioning, am I drinking too much? Or if you know you're drinking too much wherever you are on the spectrum. You can start the protocol and start drinking less. And again, it's, you know, it's something you can do discreetly. You don't have to tell your work. I have people in our program, they haven't told anybody in their life 'cause they've kind of kept their drinking a secret, which is a thing that some of us do with alcohol addiction, right?

We secretly drink so people don't judge us and things like that. So just knowing that, you know, it's treatable. You can do it discreetly and it's not a reflection of who you are as a person. It can happen to. Anybody and recognizing that when we're drinking a lot, it just does a number on our shame and our confidence and our self worth.

And please know you're not stuck there. Like you can heal and be the best version of yourself. That sounds kind of cliche, but it's it's true. It really is. Alcohol takes, when we drink too much, it just takes so much from us and we kind of lose who we are. And when you heal that, it's like, wow, you rediscover who you really are underneath, you know, the, the alcohol buzz.

Yeah, I think that's a great message. And my thing too for everyone is like, if you've tried AA or rehab and you didn't find a success or you've tried reading books or whatever it is, you've got nothing to lose by trying this and, and at least giving it a chance to see. I understand it, it sounds too good to be true, probably.

I get that. But you know, we're just here to help you and support you, and I think it's something great for you to try. It's never too late and also better early than later. Like you said before, life gets too bad before that drinking develops into something worse. So even if you feel like you're struggling with just a drink a day right now, start there if you have to.

Everyone's at different levels and so definitely check out the Thrive Alcohol Recovery. We're gonna have that in a description below for everyone to check out. And if you wanna connect with Ms. Katie Lane even further. Get more information you can. But Ms. Lane, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this.

Like I said, I've done a lot of unique things from the laser acupuncture to fitness, to different books, to different communities. But this is something truly unique and I, I do hope it gets more traction. And so I hope as you continue to guess that more and more people just benefit from your work and what you do.

Yeah, it was an honor to be on. I'm really grateful and like I said, if we can have a thousand options, you know, or a hundred options to offer people, I think that's amazing. So thank you for spreading the word about options that are out there for people.