A Voice For The Voiceless: Overcoming Suicide, Homelessness, And Narcissistic Parents

Today, I sit down with Chris Milson — host of Voice for the Voiceless and founder of the Mental Health Movement — to unpack a life journey defined by trauma, betrayal, and ultimately, transformation. This conversation, set up by our mutual friend and past guest Dr. Brian Licuanan, dives deep into Chris’s childhood growing up in a broken, abusive home and how those experiences led to suicide attempts, homelessness, and a lifelong struggle for validation and healing.

Mr. Milson opens up about the pain of watching his family fall apart, being bullied for his appearance, and growing up with a mother battling addiction and narcissism. We talk about the emotional scars left behind when the people who should love you the most tear you down instead. From being sent away after a suicide attempt to feeling invisible and unworthy, Mr. Milson takes us through some of the darkest moments of his life — and how therapy, friendship, and purpose helped him find light again.

We explore the creation of his podcast and the challenges he faced trying to tell his story in a world full of gatekeepers. Mr. Milson shares the inspiration behind Voice for the Voiceless — his late brother who believed in him when no one else did — and why he continues to fight for honest conversations around men's mental health. We cover betrayal trauma, podcasting as therapy, the power of community, and how to reclaim your story no matter where you started.

https://open.spotify.com/show/5tmUdRQ1O7jluUaQuQECMe?si=76f74847221746b8

https://www.youtube.com/@mentalhealthmovement-voice1382

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2093758/episodes/15151796-boundary-setting-and-relapse-dr-brian-licuanan-on-getting-loved-ones-sober.mp3?download=true

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple O’ Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and today's episode is actually the courtesy of Dr. Brian Licuanan. He was a former guest on my show. Maybe a year ago at this point in time, which is incredible. We talk in podcasting a lot about the community aspect, the networking and the connections you make.

And again, a year later, Dr. Brian Licuanan and I are still in contact and he actually, today's guest was a recommendation from him. If you haven't met Dr. Brian Licuanan in or checked out that episode, it's gonna be in a description below one of my favorite guests. I'm a podcaster, not a parent, so I do have favorites.

And you know, Dr. Brian and I had an amazing and very insightful episode on how to get your addicted loved ones into recovery. We talked about the emotional hostage situation of not properly setting boundaries with addicted loved ones of the familial bonds being taken advantage of, and it was a very powerful episode.

For me, having been the son and still the son of an addicted parent and Dr. Brian Laquan and working with a lot of those individuals and he reached out to me and said, Hey I know this guy Chris Millen, and you two would get along. Have a great episode. You have some common in your life. So, here we are connecting today.

Chris, great to have you here. And I don't know if you had the whole backstory that I just gave there. I know Dr. Brian reached out to you as well. So great to have you here. Hey man, thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, Dr. Brian him and I also had a pretty great conversation maybe about six months ago, maybe a little longer than that now.

Terrific human being. I'm really glad he put me onto yourself 'cause I think your, your content is pretty great. And yeah, I'm just excited to be on here, man. Yeah. And you're a fellow podcast host, but what I wanna start with is everything that led up to the podcast. Not every podcast has its amazing origin story.

Sometimes it's just a couple of guys having a beer and they're like, we're gonna start podcasting. But in your case, it was to be a voice for the voiceless to create an impact, and that came about from a lot of painful moments in your life. So I want us to dig deep into that, starting with kind of your upbringing and how that influenced your podcast as well as, you know, your later years in life as well.

Man. So I guess the earliest memory is probably going back to like about four years old, right? This is a little bit before my parents got divorced. My mom was unfaithful to my father, and I specifically remember leading my dad to the house that she was staying at with another guy. I remember the detail of the car.

I remember the guy's name still to this day and be 33 this year. So that doesn't tell you how much of a impact that had on my outlook on my mother. You know, going fast forward I was about eight years old when my parents got divorced and eight years old, you know, you get a lot of feelings you know, thinking it's your fault, thinking that, you know, what could I have done to prevent my parents from splitting up?

Why am I going to mom's house and dad's house? And you know, I, I know going to two different Christmases and two different birthdays sounds great on paper and everything, but you know, it's, still to this day, I, I kind of wish my parents never split, but then knowing their personality, it's like, yeah, I'm glad you guys got divorced.

Right, right. So from eight years old to like 14, you know, there was just that span of not really sure how to digest the fact my parents aren't together. And I remember specifically right after my parents got divorced my first grade teacher at the time still very close to her to this day.

And you know, she found out my parents got divorced and she was one of the first adults that had an impact in my life. She taught me how to tie my shoes, you know, she was there for me when my parents couldn't even be there for themselves. And, you know, we've stayed close ever since then. And I consider her one of my rocks.

And I, I will, for as long as I can tell my story, man, I'll forever shout out her name. Theresa Sauer. One of the most genuine and loving human beings I've ever met in my life. So going through middle school, you know, just again, just kind of dealing with the parents being split and going to their house every other day or whatever their arrangement was.

They went through a nasty divorce. They still hate each other to this day. And you know, that's 20 something years ago now. 25 years ago they've been divorced and they still at each other's throats no matter what. So it's just like some, right. People can't be sure. Yeah, so about 14 years old is, is kind of when things started getting a little dark in my life.

Just lost all feeling of what I was as a person. You know, I got bullied a lot for, for my size from like seventh grade to still to this day. And it has a lot of impact. And I know as guys, we don't, we don't talk about that stuff. We don't talk about getting bullied. You know, it doesn't come off as, oh, well be a man, you know, we don't get bullied.

Be a man. Right. And I was with a girl in ninth grade. You know, we don't take relationships in ninth grade, very seriously. Right. And we ended up breaking up and she ended up with another guy who was one of my friends. And it led to a lot of anger. Yeah, of course. When I saw them walking together for the first time, I broke one of my knuckles on a locker on a, on a lock.

And I just remember it looking like a golf ball. And my teacher just like, why wouldn't you go to the clinic with your hand looking like that? And the crazy part is, I didn't even feel the pain. That's what I noticed. There was just kind of a disconnect in, you know, just how I was thinking. And that led to self-harming.

And I wore a insane clown posse jacket probably my entire ninth to early 10th grade year covering my arms because they were so bad. And I didn't realize it was bad until I had to start putting ace bandages on my arm and try to hide that from friends. Then when that wasn't helping, I, I decided one day, you know, this, this has to stop somewhere.

This, I can't feel like this forever, you know, nobody sees me, nobody sees what I'm going through. Nobody cares. My mom dealing with her addiction at the time, which you know, she was. Messing around with a lot. You know, she was smoking a lot. She was she was doing crack. And I didn't find this out until about 17 years old.

And I attempted to take my life at 14 years old at school. I had the means, I had a plan, and the plan was to be seen in front of the whole school. It was so people can see me. While it wasn't in my best hour, you know, it was, nobody sees me anyway, so who gives a shit, right? And when I, when I went to attempt, somebody caught wind of me, you know, planning to do it.

As I tied the rope to the balcony, resource officer tackles me to the ground and they baker me, and I went into a psych ward. It was outpatient therapy. So, you know, this is about 2006, 2007. So mental health resources weren't up to par with what they are now. If you went to go visit a clinic, you're looked at it crazy.

And we didn't know how to deal with kids that were suicidal at that time. And I remember them pairing me up with a therapist who specialized in gambling addiction. Let that sink in for a second, right? This is right after I attempted. And they pair me up with somebody who specializes in gambling addiction, 14 years old, not sure what's wrong with me, not sure how do I get my life better.

And I couldn't tell you one helpful lesson I got out of that two weeks of outpatient therapy. After after that therapy, after that two weeks therapy sessions, my mom sent me away for three months to a family friend. She's like, I can't put up with you anymore. This is after the attempt. This is after I, I, I guess I cry for help if you want, if you will.

And. She still didn't see me, she still didn't seem to give a shit and she sent me away for three months. Didn't call, didn't call, come to check up on me, nothing. And I remember those three months because it was the most peaceful I felt in so long. And, you know, not to say that my mom was the, the sole problem of the problems I had, but she was a, a big indicator of my mental health not being very well.

So about 14 to 27, there's just like that span of being numb, you know, graduating high school and yeah, while it's, it's a great accomplishment because a lot of people aren't fortunate enough to walk that stage and get a diploma. I just remember not really feeling anything after we graduated either.

'cause I didn't really have a lot of friends. In my senior class, like every time a reunion comes up, it's like, oh yeah, a 10 year reunion. You guys were all assholes to me. Why would I go to a reunion? Right? Yeah. And so I just kind of dove right into work. I went to, I tried to do college after school.

'cause that's what I thought my parents wanted me to do. It was, can I get, can I finally get them to say that they're proud of me? Never, never said that, oh, they were rooting for me or nothing like that. And while I was going to school my mom decided to get with another man that lived in Jersey. So she decided to leave me homeless and move to Jersey with this other guy.

My dad didn't have a place for me to stay, so I didn't stay with him. So I had to stay with a best friend and his newly his newlywed. And that did not go over well at all with her. Yeah, it's helping a friend and he was happy to do it, but she was not happy that they just got married and he's already moving in a friend.

Yeah. And I had to choose either to go to school or, you know, make money now and it's like, well, I don't have money because all my money was going to rent when my mom was there and I can't afford school 'cause I don't have money to give to school. So I dropped out. It just like the span throughout working that job just felt completely numb.

Just, you know, whatever. My feelings don't exist kind of thing. And I spent six years in an asylum o of that workplace and ended my head, I. Never feeling good enough, never understanding why opportunities weren't being given to me. I was very angry, very bitter, and I never understood how bad all of those emotions were affecting me until towards the end of me working there.

I was attempting to do wrestling school. I'm a really big wrestling fan of Washington since I was like seven years old. Attempted to do wrestling school and I tore my shoulder and with an already pretty low mental health, I hit rock bottom and my body was falling apart. Started gaining weight when I was in a shoulder sling.

And my mom offered to take care of me in in New Jersey for six weeks while I was in the sling. And of course, the not emotionally intelligent enough, Chris said, yeah, that sounds great. Let me get away from Florida for six weeks. Let me go up there and, you know, just unplug from everything. So in, in the midst of that six weeks she sold me on, you know, if you move up here with me, everything's gonna be so much better.

You don't have to pay rent, you can save money and yada yada. So, against my better part, my better judgment I made the decision to quit my job and I moved up to Jersey for a year. And man, when I tell you this is the worst, one of the worst years of my entire life it got bad and it got bad fast.

'cause my mom, the thing with my mom when it comes to me and my siblings is she will use us as weapons in any relationship that she's in. So she used me coming up there to manipulate the man that she left Florida to go live with and I. Basically it led to one night, one faithful night, and this is one of the biggest and most important events of, you know, just the mental health rock bottom.

We got into a really big fight, and I don't remember what it was, what it was about. She spent three and a half hours screaming in my face. I didn't get one word in. I just let her scream. I just let her let I just took it and I was basically her punching bag for three hours. Just sat there and didn't reply, didn't even reply after she was done.

And I had a friend on a, on a party chat on my PlayStation, listening to the whole thing. And after she was done screaming and she went upstairs, I just said to my friend, I'm like, I gotta go. I, I, I can't, I can't be here right now. And I disappeared for like an hour. She called the cops on me to, to search for me.

And here I was just sitting in the middle of the city that we were living in, up there on a curb. Didn't answer my phone, nothing. And she spent hours driving around looking for me, couldn't find me. So that led to my second attempt. And the reason I say this is like one of the most, the, the biggest event that I think happened in my life was for two reasons.

Those two reasons were the people that called me. I wrote on Facebook, I wrote my suicide note on Facebook, deleted it within five minutes. And I said, I don't want that kind of attention. You know, it's, it was a cry for help, but it's not the cry for help I want people to see me ask for. I don't wanna ask for that kind of help.

Before I, or after I deleted it, I got a phone call from my friend Rochelle, who is now my tattoo artist and my late brother who basically more or less said the same thing. Like, Hey, I just wanna let you know I saw what you posted. I saw that you deleted it, and I wanna let you know that I'm here for you and I love you and I don't want anything to happen to you.

That's all I wanted, that's all I wanted to hear was somebody giving a shit, somebody caring whether or not I was going to be gone tomorrow because I felt so alone in Jersey. I didn't have any friends that were consistent. I didn't hang out with anybody. And that's when I sought therapy for the first time.

I was there for about six months and she helped clear out a lot of the spiderwebs that were in my head. You know, just realizing that, hey, your mom is a narcissistic. An abusive person, you need to get away from that situation. And when I made the decision to come back down here to Florida she basically tried to say that I left New Jersey and put her and her fiance at the time in a financially bad spot, didn't mention anything else, just tried to drag me through the mud.

My own mother tried to drag me through the mud on social media. And when I came back down here, you know, I, I was struggling for like the first six months to a year finding a consistent job or at least a decent paying one. And when I got to the job I'm at now I started started therapy right when the pandemic hit.

So about I don't even remember our exact. I think it was like September. It was after a, a friend had lost her life in the middle of a pandemic. You know, she had been scheduled for a surgery and this is around the time when we couldn't see our loved ones when they passed away. So I didn't know how to grieve properly.

And after she passed away the day I was supposed to start my therapy session and a friend passed away on that same day. So two, two deaths within a span of a couple months. And over time in a therapy that I've been in since then I was able to finally grieve my friend's, loss, grieve the people that I was losing.

And that, you know, that's the most important part to the loss that I had suffered in 2021. And that was one of my brothers losing his life to a drunk driver. It's probably one of the hardest passings in my life because he's the guy that saved my life. He's one of the biggest reasons that I'm still here.

And it wasn't until recently that I really kind of pieced together why exactly The podcast was named what it's named. But when I created the podcast, this is after his passing. So the voice is myself. And for the voiceless, the ones that are no longer with us or can't find our voice, is for people like him that were rooting for me, or the people that just can't seem to get out of that darkness.

And every day, every podcast that I do, and I, I wanna share this with you since I, I shared him, I have my brother's picture right next to me during every podcast just looking over. Everything that I do, because he was just such a important figure in my life. And it'll be four years in August, couple days after my birthday.

Wow. Yeah. There was a lot you shared there and we're gonna go through it. So the first thing that really caught my attention was you said that you, you know, your memory was four years old with your father going to the, the house of adultery, yet it wasn't until you were eight that they got divorced.

Do you know what that four year gap was about? They tried to make things work. I mean, you were young at the time, but I don't know if you've ever asked your parents about that now. So I've actually asked my dad about it. We've had conversations about it and it was more he wanted to believe that she was going to get better, that he could forgive her and move on.

And this is one of his friends and still to this day, they're friends. And I asked him about 'em, like, how do you look at a guy that's same? After he essentially slept with your wife? My mom, I'd be okay with it. He's like, the crazy part is, every single time I see him, he apologizes every single time I see him.

This is, this is 30 years later, or, yeah, 30 years later. And I just said, I, I couldn't imagine, and maybe it's a generation thing, I couldn't imagine being friends with somebody who did that to me, and I've never confronted my mom about it. I, I've, I've thought about it many times and the problem with talking to my mom about a lot of what went on is she will immediately deflect and say, yeah, don't bring up my past.

And it's like, how are we supposed to move on if you can't acknowledge all the wrong doings? You did. Yeah. Well, I think yeah, it's the, the difference between you and your father is a bit humorous and the, you, you break up with your girlfriend, you see her with another guy and you break your knuckle.

Meanwhile, your dad's chilling, playing golf, having a beer with the guy who slept with his wife, which is a much larger scale. 'cause at that point that, I mean, I assume your dad's friend knew she was a married woman. Yeah. I feel like that's pretty much known. So because of the way conversations with your mother tend to go, have you never been able to find out the reason behind her adultery?

If has she given kind of like, or is there any like speculation to why she did it? So it's, it's always come down to if the guy that she's currently with, and I've noticed 'cause it's been a pattern a pattern. Yeah. For as long as I can remember. She'll get what she wants out of somebody and she'll leave.

Um mm-hmm. When my sister was born, and this isn't a dig in my sister, but when my sister was born, my mom essentially got what she wanted outta my dad, a girl. And that's when she got divorced and ended up with another guy while she was still married to my dad. Adultery once again. This is when the online dating thing started.

So, yeah. So, I remember specifically that night my dad finding out about this guy. They got into a physical altercation and my mom ended up being in being thrown in the back of a police car because she got really physical and like ripped his necklace off and everything. And I remember my little brother running after the police car when my mom was being driven away.

And then the guy that she was leaving my dad for was just standing in the street and that's like burning in the back of my brain. I was like eight years old when that happened. Yeah. It's like a comic book scene. It doesn't seem real. Yeah. Yeah. So I can relate to the you know, the stuff with the mother.

I have a pretty similar relationship with my mother even in terms of when I was gonna commit suicide back when I was around 16, 17, junior year. Same kind of reaction from my mother, which was don't care. Kind of scoff and laugh and I. I was just recording an episode the other day about betrayal trauma originally.

Now it's used in terms for relationships, adultery, that kind of stuff. Originally it was parent, child betrayal trauma based on the codependency and the way that parents actually helped regulate their children's nervous systems and set up everything that, that level of betrayal typically takes 18 to 24 months to heal for, for that, for that one betrayal.

And that a betrayal from a parent is more significant than any other individual. Friends, coworkers, whatever. And then once you get into a relationship, the more serious it is, it begins to get to that same level of codependency and, you know, physical effects as a, as parents. So that idea of my mother doesn't care, didn't acknowledge it.

Like you said, she wasn't even calling you, just sent you away. It still blows my mind as someone who really wants to be a father, as someone who even just even just as a dog dad, if I, if my thought were to ever do something to, to hurt itself, you know, I would be so concerned, let alone a human child that you raised for years.

I really can't understand not being concerned for your child's wellbeing. I just can't Even fathers who, who abandoned their children or mothers who abandoned their children I, I can't understand that. You know, it's. So interesting. Meanwhile, you have mothers who are women who are addicted to smoking or alcohol, and as soon as they get pregnant, they stop and they, em embrace motherhood.

That's not all of them. But to see such a spectrum of powerful care to neglect, it just really blows my mind sometimes. And I want to go back to well, well actually let's go to the, you'd mentioned senior year, graduating, all of that, that was the same high school where you tried to commit suicide or did you go to a different high school?

So in 10th grade I went to three different high schools from moving around and my mom just finding a new relationship for the month. Within one year I went to three different high schools. So the, the high school that I. Attempted at I went to in 10th grade for about a couple months, and then I left for another one where I was in a leg brace for better part of the time that I was there.

And God, that, that school was rough. I think I was only there for like six months and then I went to the school that I graduated at and you know, again, this is right in the middle of 10th grade, so, you know, everybody has their cliques, everybody has all their friends and everything. For sure. Yeah.

And here I am coming in towards the end of the school year and it was hard to make friends. It was hard to form those bonds with people. Yeah, for sure. A lot of isolation in Al Kaman. And my thing was, I was curious how everyone treated you post attempt if it was the same school. Did you go back to that school at all post attempt for a few weeks?

Or it was like your, was that intentional on, on your mother's behalf, or, or did someone kind of advise that or it just kind of coincidentally lined up that way? It just co it just lined up that way. After the attempt, I wait for the better. Yeah, absolutely. For the better. After the attempt, you know, I went back to, to school, finished the year went back there in 10th grade.

I don't, I don't remember people treating me differently than, you know, preemt. I just kind of remember me feeling more or less the same going back to that school and I. When I left in 10th grade, I just remember being heartbroken. 'cause like, damn, I'm, I'm starting to make friends, I'm starting to know people's names.

And it's just like, yeah, how you gonna rip that all away from me? And when I went into the, the second school, you know, I, I knew a bunch of kids there from elementary school, but again, everybody was in their cliques and pretended they didn't know you because you didn't go to middle school with them. And that again, isolation was a really big thing in that school.

And I hated every second I was in that school. And what's crazy is like, I wanted to go there to begin with. I wanted to go there to start with, and that was because everybody I grew up with was in that school. And because we moved around so much it, it just, it couldn't happen. Yeah. When we got to the third school, you know, there was no person that I met that knew about that attempt.

So like, oh, okay, I can have a clean slate and, you know, just go about my way. And I think I made more friends with underclassmen than I did with people my own age, just because most of the kids my age were just, I, I don't even, I can't relate to any of them. It's just like, yeah, you guys don't have traumatic experiences or your parents have money and I don't.

And it's like, there were so many different factors in, in going to that third school. No, I, I get that. I wanna clarify, I think I said committed earlier instead of attempted. Obviously you're still here, so that was a, a mistake on my part. That's okay. But I relate a lot to what you just said. When I was in seventh and eighth grade majority of my friends were.

Fifth, sixth, seventh graders. It, as, as in younger than me, it was always like, I couldn't relate, relate to the people at my same grade level, but I had friends who were older or younger. And it is always been that way too. Even when I was working in high school the customers I always got along with the best were either younger or older.

It was never the high school college age people. They always gave me the hardest time. So I, I relate a lot to that. And then also even like for me, I remember when I was graduating was when COVID first hit, so, around the beginning of March of my senior year, they said, Hey, we're gonna take a two week vacation and come back.

And we never came back. And they arranged things to have like an outdoor graduation. And I remember I chose not to go. I told my parents I didn't want to go, so I never even walked across stage. Never did any of that stuff just 'cause. I was already isolated and outcasted in high school, and then after COVID, I was just living in my room by myself.

At that point, it was like, why would I go back to that environment? You talked about the class reunions. I was like, why would I go back to what? Walk across stage, say hi to people who haven't talked to in six months and prior to that didn't get along with to be begin with. Sometimes I want to, sometimes I see people graduating.

I was like kind of weird that I never did that. I never graduated. I, I got my diploma, like sent in the mail or something. So I could go out to bootcamp pastor or whatever. But weird. But like you said I, I thought about class reunions and I feel like, one of the Bible quotes I hold closest in my heart is always do you not know among his hometown, there is no honor for a profit.

Because even with all that I do nowadays, even with success, even if my podcast blew up to be one of the biggest ones in the world, I. The people in my hometown would be the ones who supported it the least, who gave me the hardest time, who wouldn't believe in me. I remember the first time I, I, it was, and, and this shocked me.

'cause grandparents are usually more supportive than your parents, to be honest. But I remember when I was talking about how I do standup comedy, my, my grandma just couldn't believe it. She was like, you, you And I was like, grandma, you're supposed to be the, the number one family member who's like, you're such a handsome young man and you can do anything and you know, you're supposed to gimme all these illusions that I, I just had to fight off women from, from talking to me.

And I'm too funny that places don't even want to book me to shame other comedians, but no, grandma was like you, you know? But yeah, I, I think about like the work I do nowadays, and I feel like the people in my hometown would judge it the hardest, you know? And so I relate a lot to that. What I wanted to ask, I kind of lost track a little bit, was how old were you were that second attempt happened?

27. 27? Yeah. Okay. So when, when your parents, when your mom moved to New Jersey and left you homeless, how old were you then? That was also 27. I was 20 I think. Yeah, I wasn't even 21. Yeah, I was 20. So you were fig, so that was kind of like you were figuring out post high school what you wanted to do and you were still living with your parents.

And then it seemed like most of your life was controlled by your mom, but you also had your, your dad. So you said he didn't have a place for you to stay. So did he, did you, but you visited him every other, what was the kind of the setup for custody? So he would get us on the weekends 'cause he, he worked a lot.

You know, this guy would put in like 60 to 80 hours a week at work. So it was like, yeah, I have I'm free on the weekends and we would see him on the weekends. Very rarely did we see him on weekdays. And sometimes we wouldn't see him at all because either he's decompressing during the weekends and just doing what he's doing and.

We would just stay at our mom's house. And the, the worst part of the, the custody situation was my mom did hurt her, her very bad, bad, I'm sure my dad looked like the villain the entire time we were kids. So my mom told my sister a bunch of lies about my father and, you know, just, you know, lied about abuse and lied about him being unfaithful.

And she ran with that story for years. And my sister didn't talk to my dad for at least a better part half a decade because of things my mom made up about him. And my brother kind of stayed with my dad, so he had more of a relationship with my dad than, than I did. But through the custody situation with him was usually just every weekend.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Now I, I am curious, just speaking of, you know, no honor for profit in his hometown. I know like my father doesn't know about the work that I do. What is your relationship with your parents like now? Do they know about the podcast? Do they not know that kind of stuff? So both of 'em are very aware of the podcast.

My mom and I don't have a relationship. It's the, the weird part about my dad is like, we can have conversations, but nine times outta 10, they don't have any, there's no base on ev any conversation we had. And by that I mean, there's no substance to our conversation. Just Id a small talk kind of like, yeah.

Yeah. It's not like, how are you doing? How's the podcast? How's therapy? Nothing. I couldn't tell you the last time he asked how I was doing. Mm-hmm. It's usually calling to ask about a movie I've seen or asking how my siblings are doing. He's very, yeah, he's very emotionally turned off when it comes to any conversations with him and I it takes him to get to a bad place for him to actually have a conversation with you, like a normal person.

Mm-hmm. But him and I, him and i's relationship is strange because he sees things like, why do you keep giving your mom chances and doesn't understand that? Like, I just want normal parents. You know? I just want my mom to stop being the way that she is. I want my dad to actually give a shit. Yeah. And I haven't told him that.

I just want him to say that he's proud of me for something. And, and that was one of the biggest problems is I chased after his validation for so long. Hmm. I just wanted to hear those words. I'm proud of you. And it got bad to one point where I. Saw him say that I'm proud of you, or congratulations to my little brother and Right.

It crushed me because I searched on my Facebook like, this is how bad it was. I searched on my Facebook for any comment that he left under my post of the things that I did. Never once did he say he's proud of me or Congratulations. All right. I get that. My, so I had graduated bootcamp, a school power school in prototype during the military and no one came to any of those graduations.

You know, my father even offered to take my whole family. At the time my mom was, you know, a stay at home mom, so bringing her and the sisters to watch me graduate, mom said no. My youngest sister had maybe two or three recent military graduations and my mom went to all of them, flew out to Chicago, flew out to Virginia.

Wouldn't take a free ride with my dad to go see me in South Carolina though. So that whole. I, I can relate a lot to what you're saying about like, now I don't even like graduation ceremonies, to be honest. Especially my mom was the one who forced me into the military. And like she was only, it seems like she's only proud of the navy part of me, not any other part of me.

And that was the part that she made, so to speak. So I didn't even want her to go to those graduations, but the fact that she went to all my sisters and not, and not mine, and now she went, when she had a full-time child was quote, too busy to even sit, take a single day off to see me, but then it would take off two weekends a month ago, see my sister.

So I, I relate to that. And what I'll say about the, the filler talk with the dad, I think a lot of young men and men in general can relate, especially actually even older men because of the, the generational mindsets that it's more so you have those deeper conversations with your mother. And your father kind of, it's a exchange of few words.

We've seen that historically in, in books and TV and in society. So I think, but then when you don't have your mother figure, you know, you want to, you know, be able to, and I think even if you have a good relationship with your mom, you want to be able to share that stuff with your dad. But it's always that kind of closed off, awkward conversation.

And I, I can kind of relate because like, my dad and I will talk about a lot of stuff, but none of those actual like de personal issues like you're talking about you know, and, and I think that's, it is kind of sad, you know? And yeah, totally get that, that complicated relationship with them and just wanting your parents to.

To, to be normal. I think it's interesting, even ironic, so to speak, that your, your father is kind of preaching against forgiveness with you and your mother, yet he is friends for decades with a man who slept with his wife. So, what, what can you say to that kind of hip hypocrisy, right? Yeah. And, and the, the crazy part is like, I completely lost my train of thought.

Oh my Lord, have mercy. I'm so sorry. It was, it was about my dad. It'll come back. Go, go ahead. And but that, that stoic mentality of being closed off and, you know, the, the small talk and it's like, it's like you're trying kind of, it's, it's, it is almost like if you're gonna put in the effort to have a relationship with me, then let's have that full relationship.

Because honestly, the. It is almost like it's just a checkbox, you know, conversation between you and your father. You're like, did I call my son this week? We talked about baseball, the weather, whatever. Like we did, we talk. Yes. And it's almost like a checkbox, almost like a hey, when we pass away, like, Hey, we had a relationship, we talked.

But if there's no meaning to it, you know, it's a totally different thing, you know? And I can't remember. There's, there's like a saying about it though is like, there's an analogy. It's like. You can run from point A to B or you can jog in place and both are exercising, but only one gets you to a, a destination or, or something like that.

You know, it's like you can, or a lot of these conference meetings, you can talk all day long with no decisions made then it's just all passing out talk. So let's shift into a little bit more about the podcast. You know, how long have you been running it for? What kind of is the, the purpose of it?

Because obviously you have, you kind of explained a little bit with the sentiment to your brother, but tell us a little bit more about it. Man, so it, it, it started as a Facebook group, right? It was under mental health movement and I was part of this Facebook group called the Suicide Rock Preventions suicide Rocks Prevention.

And one day I just decided, I'm like, Hey, I want to share my story and I, I guess this is the right place to share it and just wanna see where it goes. So, shared my story and I think within a couple hours it got over like 600 likes on the page. I'm like, oh, so people actually do give a shit. People do wanna hear my story.

So they invited me to to take part in their blog. It was the Joshua Foundation, and this guy had lost his husband to suicide and started the nonprofit for that. And he's like, Hey, we would love for you to write for our blog. I'm like, oh yeah, it'd be great. Get my story out there. And, you know, just help others that are struggling to find their voice.

So. I did that and my first one that I got posted it got like no reaction that time. Like, okay, this is, this is a little weird, whatever. I'm not gonna look too far into it. Then the second time, the second post took me five hours to write because there was just so much there. And again, this was my attempt to tell my story and just like the impact, the negative impact that my mom had on my life.

And he never posted it. And I'm like, okay, this is a little weird. And I reached out to him like, Hey man, like I, I sent out this blog and it still says pending, and it's been like a month. You know, what's going on? Was there something I need to reword? 'cause you know, social media hits that trigger every time They're Yeah.

Yeah. Wrong wording or something. It's like, oh no, sorry, I've just been busy. I'll post it this week. Couple weeks goes by nothing. So my thought process was, okay, now it just comes off as you're, you were trying to filter me out of your page. So traffic wasn't going to me, which I get it. It's your page. I'm not trying to take away your audience.

But then it got to a point where my posts weren't getting approved, the blog wasn't doing anything, and I was just sitting there. I'm like, man, I just, I wanna help people and you guys aren't letting me help people. Like you're being a roadblock. When we're, when we have the same objective here, we're just trying to help people.

So I took it upon myself to make a Facebook group, and that was the mental health movement. They kicked me out of the blog and the group, because I made a mental health group and the admin messaged me that same day. Did you make another mental health group? Yes. Because you guys weren't. Letting me post anything, you would either not approve it or would just sit there for, for days or months.

And I said, I just, I need to get a message out there and you're not, you're not allowing me to do so. Yeah. So they removed me from the blog and everything else. I'm like, okay, whatever, man. Like that was very disheartening. So I created the group and didn't have like, a long-term goal with it. I was just like, okay, I want people to come in here.

I want people to hear my story, to hear my truth, and I want to encourage others to do the same. So I think within a year we got a lot of group members. I think we ended up the first year with like three, 400 people. And you know, it went from 2019 to 2021. When my brother passed away. It was just growth and he was one of the biggest supporters.

He's like, man, I'm so proud of you for talking about this, the conversation of toxic mothers. It's never had. And I, I started a really big conversation with that and. But then he passed away and I almost gave completely up on sharing my story and being that way for other people. I was just like, my biggest supporter is gone and I don't know what to do.

And I just thinking back to the conversations him and I had, and he was a guy that was raised in that generation of men that don't know anything about mental health, that just don't know anything beyond the spectrum of every time the word trigger is mentioned like, ha ha, let's make fun of somebody.

'cause they're triggered. He called me one day and he's like, Hey man. Like I know we joke around about this word trigger, but I wanted to ask you, what exactly does that mean? That conversation still to this day, man, really makes me smile. 'cause it's like somebody who's the definition of, I don't wanna say emotionally turned off, but just being part of that generation of men who weren't told to share their feelings.

Right? Yeah. We had that hour long conversation and he's like, oh man, I really appreciate it. And, and this was kind of ominous in that conversation. He is like, I want you to know that if anything ever happens to me I want you to, to be there for my fiance. You know, just, I want you to make sure she's okay.

'cause I don't know how, how well she'll handle it. And that conversation was ominous. 'cause a couple months later he was killed by a drunk driver. After he passed away, I was just like, I gotta do something. Like, I gotta get myself out of this mindset. Thankfully, being in therapy, I knew what grief looked like, I knew how it felt.

Hey, he was my first funeral in a very long time, and I couldn't sleep for like three months. Like, those therapy sessions were rough for me because all I kept hearing was the, the, the door closing of the hearse and could not sleep. And I was just paralyzed from, I. That sound just, it would follow me everywhere.

So I made the podcast, I didn't have a direction. I, I, the very first episode is me talking about anxiety and it was sharing the breathing technique on a microphone. It was like, okay, take a deep breath and just kind of like a SMR type thing. And my intention of the podcast at first was, all right, there's a lot of information on the internet that's not getting out mental health related, and how can we talk about this?

How can I relate to it? And it was just me talking about my story. And then it eventually got to a point where it was like, man, I wanna have somebody on here. I want to hear other people's stories. I want to hear what other people are going through. Because I feel like this podcast, it's growing, but it's not growing for the reasons that I want it to.

So I had my first guest on there, and I'm like, I really like interviewing people. I, I love hearing stories and my intention is to just give people a microphone and give people that spotlight they never had. I'm like, Hey, like, this is your safe place. I want you to tell me what you went through. And I've had people talk about them being SAI, I've had people come out on my podcast.

It's like, it's a gratifying feeling to know that people feel safe enough to share that much vulnerability with you. And just this month alone, man with Men's Mental Health Month, you know, you and I both know how hard having conversations with other men can be and to have three men just this month alone, come on my podcast, is, is a lot of progress compared to what it's been in the last couple years.

And I, I think just my goal for the, the podcast in general is I don't care if I never hit a million. I don't care if I, if I ever reach Joe Rogan's radar. It is just, I want people to feel safe enough to come on that platform and share their story, to share what they were told they shouldn't share. Yeah. I think that is, is beautiful.

And one thing I will say is one of the things I've always put forward, a lot of people you know, because of their pride and you go in societal expectations, they take a lot of things to the competition. And, you know, I definitely thought that at first when I was getting into podcasting, I was like, I don't want to record with other veterans who host podcasts on the military and mental health because, you know, X, Y, Z.

But it turns out it's a, a community and, and I've since. Really changed my mindset. You know, I record all the time with people who have shows just like mine because at the end of the day, I mean, I, if someone connects with you better as a host than me then that's fine. That's what they need. I think that, you know, there are thousands, actually, there is hundreds of thousands of podcasts out there that cover the same exact topics that both you and I cover but in a different style and in a way that connects with different people.

And the goal for all of us, universally, collectively, should be to reach as many people as possible in the ways that they need. And so, yeah, I think unfortunately what you highlighted is an individual. You know, running a group that sees it as competition, sees it as, Hey, we want the attention on our content, on our stuff.

And even in your example, it seems like it's not even monetarily driven, which is usually one of the number one factors behind why people don't wanna share and support one another, which is monetary gain. But even in that, and especially nowadays with social media, attention is, is equivalent to monetary gain.

Yeah. Likes, comments, all that stuff. But like you said, you were just trying to put out a story to help people. It wasn't about taking attention away from them. And the idea of, well, if you're in my mental health group, you're not allowed to create your own. Well, you a monopoly. I mean, there are hundreds of Facebook groups, thousands of them.

If I wanna run my own version that's fine. It shouldn't be in competition with yours. It should be in tandem with it. Most people who join those groups will be in more than one, and, and if they jump ship entirely, well then they're doing something differently. And it's not necessarily better. It's not like, Hey, if someone's listening to my show and now they hear you and they go leave my show for yours, it's not that you're doing anything better, it's they connect with you in a different way.

'cause you have a different talking style, a different way that you host your show. And I wouldn't take it offensively, but some people take it as, oh, they think they're better than me. So that it's so sad to see, again, amongst human beings, so much division and competition when there doesn't have to be, again, that very, you know, that pride, that ego.

Yeah. One of the, the, the deadliest ends in, in my opinion, and one of the worst ones. And what I'll also say is about. Sharing our stories. I, I wanna share something not to take the focus off of you and put it on me, but because I think it's something that you might relate to a lot in a lot of people listening right now.

If you've ever dealt with narcissistic parents with toxic relationships with your parents I'll never forget just going back to the betrayal trauma, my mother said to me in one of our arguments, and I've had my three hour scream sessions as well. Unlike you, I I talk back a bit more. There have been times where I'm like, I, there's no point even in saying anything too.

Unfortunately especially with addicted parents, that's the whole conversation on its own. Talking to a brick wall sometimes, or a hamster wheel conversation. But my mother said that I would die alone, that I would never be loved, and that no one would ever want to hear my story. That I would never publish a good book.

You know, that I would just be a die, a lonely bum full of regrets because I want to write and share stories and, and you know, that she said, haven't you been outcasted enough in, in high school? You're outcast in, in fashion and music and, and personality, all this stuff. And I now have a podcast that is in the top 1.5% of global podcast that has over, we're approaching 200 episodes, over a hundred reviews, I've guessed on 30 different shows from TV to podcast.

I'm being featured in nine books this year. And I don't say that to brag. I say it to, you know, my mother said that no one will want to hear my story. And I could have very easily taken that to heart that I would never publish a good book, you know, all this stuff. And you know, I very easily could have taken that to heart and been discouraged and, and shut down.

But, you know, I've, I've, and you talked about chasing after validation. And for me, I. I know that and, and in fact we talked about the other day in a episode on intimacy and betrayal and self-love that so many of us are seeking validation through social media. As we just mentioned through how much our partner loves us rather than what we think about ourselves.

A lot of us place our value based on our relationship status, that if we're single, we're worthless. That if we're in a relationship, we're pretty good. If we're married, we're spectacular. Instead of what we have to offer regardless of anyone else, no matter what environment we're in, who we're with our individual value.

And I'm so grateful that I have been able to share my story knowing that, well, it doesn't matter if it's valuable to my mom or not, or who she thinks is gonna be valuable to what matters is the person. I, I, I could, I could say to my mom right now, well, a a young girl in Malaysia reached out to me and said that my episode changed her life.

You know, so we never know the impact we're gonna have. And I think especially our parents, especially when we have a bad relationship with them, are get, could never imagine the impact that we're gonna have. So, Chris, I gotta say, I don't know if your parents are supportive of the podcast or if they would've ever been probably not.

Right? But I think that people like you, like me, are examples of it. It does. It doesn't matter what they think. It's about what we put forward. And I, I say all of this to encourage anyone who has been in a situation like Chris or I, who is feeling discouraged and, and is letting that hold them back from starting a podcast or writing a blog or a Facebook group.

Don't let your parents and, and their belief in you stop. You. Don't let what they perceive others will believe in you because your parents can't speak on behalf of the billions of people in the world who are gonna end up. Some of them are gonna end up listening to your show or reading your work. They, they can't place that value there.

And don't let if you're part of a group that is restricting you from help people for selfish reasons. I think Chris is a, a great example right now of go make the change you want to see. Part of the reason I I left the military is to have more power to create community and impact and hopefully work in tandem with the military one day in the future to be able to enact the leadership.

Because I felt like in the military there was so many so much red tape and so many politics. Same with the civilian world. I think being independent is the ultimate way to, to add that change in podcasting and writing and making your own group is one of the best ways. A lot of times we say, I, I love, I've had so many guests like yourself, Chris, who saw a lack of something somewhere or a problem.

So they went and made a solution 'cause they couldn't find it. You know, I've had some app developers who said I couldn't find an app for what I wanted, so I went and made it. You know, I think that is just a pinnacle of human creativity and, and community there. And I'd love for some of your input and if you could share even maybe some of the impacts that your show has had both on yourself and others.

Yeah, man. I, I want to go back to just really quick what you know, you were relating to with your mom what she said to you. I remember two very specific things that she said to me in that three hours of screaming in my face, I have no personality and that I have that nobody will care to listen to anything I have to say.

Second thing she said was, I hope your brother is more successful than you are. And Wow, to this day, those words echo in my head. I love my brother to death. I have no ill will towards him. And I've told him that she said that to me, and

she knows about the podcast, as does my father. Neither one of 'em care about it, and I'm okay with that because it's not for them. Sometimes people, yeah, sometimes people don't wanna a mirror held up in their face and realize that. You know, parenting doesn't come with an instruction manual as they love to deflect and say to me, you know, oh, we tried our best.

You were first born and we didn't know what we were doing. Okay, well, all that trauma you passed on to me, you know, when, when the podcast was created, you know, like I said, there was no direction. For the people that are, are finding a struggle in encouragement and just trying to find their way in life, being yourself, being authentic to yourself and telling your 100% truth, I think is the most important part of what we do.

Don't hold back. Don't tell. Don't let people tell you no. Because the more you let others influence your decisions in life, the less you're going to accomplish and the less you're going to do for me. I think if you have a passion for something, chase it. Mental health is my passion. I will forever be that, that megaphone for people that just don't have that voice.

And I think with, you know, with yourself and, and myself being raised the way that we were and having the things told to us that we weren't gonna be anything, that we weren't gonna accomplish nothing. I, I think our stories and what we're doing now is a, is a testament to that. Not letting people tell you no, not letting people influence your decisions in life.

And I think the most important part is not only community, but just being real. You know, if you're not raw, you're not real. You know, don't, don't hold back. You know, sometimes there are pieces of our story that maybe for legal reasons we can't talk about, or maybe for other people's protections we can't talk about, but their story doesn't have to be part of your story.

You know, just be authentic and the more you're authentic, the more you're going to accomplish in your life. For sure. And, and just speaking of accomplishments and authenticity, what are your future goals with the podcast, with your life and kind of what are you doing now? So, I think one of the, one of the milestones I wanna attempt to hit, and I'm not really sure how to get there yet, is I want to speak in a school.

I wanna, I want to go to a high school and share my story. Not necessarily all the sticky parts, but just kind of like, you know, you're going through hard times and you may, may not know who or what you are right now, but there's, there's light at the end of whatever tunnel you find yourself in. Right. The more speaking opportunities I get, I, I, I.

I love that every conversation is, is shaped out differently. And I love that every person that I've spoken to has asked different kind of questions, because that's always my biggest fear is like being asked the same question and then you know, kind of regurgitating what I said in the last podcast.

And, and every single one I've been on has been a hundred percent different from each other. And I think that's great. As for the podcast I mean, it just hit its 25th country, you know, it's making progress. And, and I, you know, people like you and I, I'm sure when you first started you were focused on numbers and like, oh man, nobody's, nobody's listening right now.

Right? And I was really bad with that. It's like, well, this podcast, we only got five listeners, and the last one got like 50. What am I doing wrong? I suck at what I'm doing, yada, yada. I stopped doing that when my therapist started drilling in my head that the one person then needs to hear that podcast is going to hear it.

And that one person, I, I, I would actually really wanna share this story. When she first joined the group she was very quiet, very to herself and, you know, just struggling with mental health problems a lot. Fast forward to now she has a son and she's a lot more outgoing about her struggles. And I've had one person reach out to me and be like, Hey, like, we don't know each other and I just wanna let you know that your story inspired me.

And you, you may have saved my life. And I just wanna say thank you. Hearing those words is something I couldn't possibly spell out or even tell you how I feel about it. 'cause it's like, did I save your life? Because my words were just, it was just me being me. Me telling my story, how I know how to, and for you to get.

Whatever you got outta that podcast you heard from me, I think speaks volumes to what we're doing because when we have people say that we're making an impact on their life, when we have people comment and say, this is one of the best episodes I've ever heard it's a whole nother feeling, man. It's like, it forget what your parents feel about it.

These complete strangers are telling you you're changing the world. And that's what I wanna do. I want to leave my footprint in the world. And if that comes with being a father someday and doing the same, great. If not, that's fine. I'll make my impact one way or another. And that's, that's the main goal, is I just wanna have an impact.

Yeah. I think it highlights the power of human connection and it's like you said, it's such a great feeling. Yeah. At the same time. So truly sad that strangers have given me more recognition and acknowledgement than my own parents in some regards in my life. It's just it's. It is so interesting.

It's still surreal. It's very surreal. Yeah. And it's it's a wound I've tried to deal with, which is you know, no matter how many people tell me I'm proud, I still haven't heard it from my dad or mom. And it's like, that's just a different level of, of recognition. It's it really just does hit differently.

But I will say, like you said, it's honestly, my first feeling when I, I have people reach out like that is disbelief. Like, you must have the wrong podcast. You must have, you must message the wrong host. You know? 'Cause it's like you said, sometimes it's just us being ourselves and it's like, yes, we have the intention to help others, but to think that it'll have the impact that it does sometimes it's truly shocking.

And of course, we're gonna have your information in the description below, but could you just shout out your Instagram and share some of the platforms that your show is on? Where's the best place to watch it and all that. Yeah, man. So on Facebook we have the mental health movement and on YouTube it's also the Voice for the Voiceless on Instagram, you can find me at Mental Health Movement Pod.

And the podcast is currently on YouTube, Spotify, basically anywhere you can find a podcast at. Yeah. And if people are interested in guesting on your show and they wanna reach out to you, do you have a primary email or is Instagram the best way? How should they reach out to you? So either you can reach out to me on Instagram, I'm pretty responsive on there.

Or you can email me at Mental health movement pod@gmail.com. All righty. That sounds great. Well, Chris, I think you and I could definitely talk for a long time together. We're both, we're both podcast hosts with a lot to, to share and a lot in common. But I think we hit a lot of great points today. So we're gonna wrap it up here, but I wanna thank you for your time and, and for what you're doing.

And you know, I think it's. It's, it's a powerful story for a lot of reasons. And I think one of the highlights that we didn't necessarily hit is that you know, there's so much to do in life and so much purpose in life which is a reason why you shouldn't take your life. But also even post attempt, you know, you've been able to move past that and, and create such a life for yourself and for others.

And I think that's so important. I think some people get caught up in that being their identity and kind of falling into this myy pit. But it's something that we can move past and use then as a tool to help others rather than just this shameful thing we try to hide, but by being open and vulnerable about it while taking accountability and, you know, not encouraging it, but for those who have already been in that position or are showing them what they can do with it to create an impact, I think that's so important.

Thank you, man. Yeah, I, I think the, the best advice I was ever given, and it's like literally the simplest piece of advice I've ever been given, is be gentle with yourself, right? I end every podcast with those words because, you know, like you said, we are our harshest critics. We are so brutal on ourselves, and sometimes it just takes looking in the mirror and say, Hey man, I love you.

Have a great day. And as corny as that may sound to some people, man, positive affirmations make such a big difference in life, man. And when you can honestly say that you love yourself, you are so much far ahead of the eight ball than people will, will bear to give you credit for. So don't give up. You know, I, I always say don't give up on, on who you are and your life is worth living for.

And, you know, just be gentle with yourselves.