Life Is Crazy: Betrayed By Military Leadership, Multiple Divorces, And Childhood Trauma

Today, I sit down with Brandon Held, host of the Life Is Crazy podcast, to dive into a raw and unfiltered story spanning abuse, betrayal, military injustice, and personal transformation. Mr. Held walks us through his earliest memory at just two years old—witnessing domestic violence—and how that shaped his lifelong drive to protect others. We discuss his experiences growing up around addiction, fear, and powerlessness, and how joining the Air Force at 17 was his escape from helplessness and chaos.

We explore Mr. Held’s dual military career—four years in the Air Force followed later in life by another four in the Army—and the heartbreaking moments of being sabotaged by leadership, falsely accused, and forced to leave with less than he deserved. Alongside this, we talk about his multiple marriages, his toxic relationships, and how his current wife helped him confront emotional abuse patterns that lingered from childhood. 

In partnership with all of this, we cover the truth about military culture, VA healthcare, and the tough lessons learned about leadership, ego, and accountability.

Finally, we shift to healing—how to survive job loss, divorce, and suicidal moments by choosing growth, refusing to self-destruct, and pushing through. Mr. Held’s podcast offers deeper insight into these themes, with his first 25 episodes chronicling his entire life story. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by your past or trapped by your circumstances, this conversation proves there is a way out—and that even the craziest life can be used to lift others.

https://linktr.ee/brandonheld

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couples. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and one of the things I get a lot when I conversate with individuals and I get into. Some of the things I've done, I hear you've done so much in such a short time. You've lived so much life, such a short time, such a unique and broad range of things from chemical production to railroad operations, to nuclear operations, to podcasting.

And I just tell them that life is crazy. And today I am here with a man, very similar, uh, you know, looking through his. I saw that he's been a bartender, personal trainer, salesman. There's the word military in there. There's the word divorce, and then there's traumatic childhood, right? And so we both know he and I as podcast host and guests, you'll find out that we're gonna get into quite the amount of storytelling today here.

And it's true. Life is crazy. Uh, but. Crazy has a connotation of being bad. You know, when usually when they say, oh, that person's crazy. You know, it's a connotation of negativity. But, uh, you know, when life is crazy, it's not always bad. Uh, it can be pretty chaotic. It can be stressful. It can push us to the brink of suicide.

In some cases it can push us to addiction and it can break us. But what I have found, and I'm sure our guest today will share the same is, uh. When you live so many different experiences in, in one life, you really become smart. You learn a lot, and you are able to connect with so many more people than you would've ever been able to had you just lived that simple, not so crazy life.

And so we're gonna get into appreciation today, leveraging the crazy experiences of life and, and, and what to do when life is too crazy for us to handle. We are here with Mr. Brandon held. Would you please go ahead and introduce yourself for us? 

Uh, first of all, thank you for having me today. Uh, as you said, my name is Brandon Held.

Uh, my podcast is called Life is Crazy and it's really centered about everything you just said. Uh, my life has had, I. A lot of up and ups and downs. And now that I'm in my fifties, it feels like it's starting to finally taper off a little bit and become more, quote unquote normal. But it took me almost 50 years for that to happen.

So, uh, it, it starts with my, my earliest childhood memory. Um. I thought for the longest time was a dream or something I made up in my head. And finally one day I approached my mom and I told her about it and she was like, oh my God, I can't believe you. Remember that you were two years old. And so what that memory is is my biological father coming into our trailer and pulling my mom out of the shower.

By her hair naked and he starts beating on her and punching her and throwing her around right in front of me at two years old. Wow. And I have, I have never met my biological father ever, except for at that age because my mom divorced him shortly after that. And that's the one and only memory I have of this guy.

And so, um. That's a theme for the way the rest of my childhood went, because my mother would, you know, get with other abusers and stuff like that. Right. But that would, that shaped me into being a super protective man. Um, which is the way that I am today. I, and I believe that started all way back then.

Yeah, for sure. You know, I think a lot of people have this mindset that, oh, they're too young to remember this. Or it's just children, you know, and people fail to realize that we, we've discussed it on the show before, children are sponges, right? They absorb everything. And, uh, even at a young age. What I think is interesting is what we do remember from our childhood and what we don't, right?

Obviously we don't remember everything, but we do remember certain things and I, I truly believe that there's a reason behind what our brain keeps, you know, at that point, you're conscious, but not to the degree that you are. As you know, we are right now having this conversation, but I believe that in the background, our brain is like.

Already set on autopilot to what is important for us to know. Something like that is important for us to know, you know? So I think it's really important for us to pay attention to those. And I always think, you know, like for example, I don't remember most of pre-K I remember when I broke my arm. Right.

You know, so there's certain things that stand out more than others. And so what I want to get into is, so you talk about. Becoming a protective man. And then you talked about your mom getting into this pattern of the same kind of similar relationships, abusive men. Did this lead ever to a confrontation between you and a stepdad or step, you know, boyfriend where you ended up having to step in and protect your mom?

Or what was that kind of childhood dynamic like? 

Not so, you know, I was just too big of a wimp basically. So, um, you know, I grew up poor and, um, in doing so, uh, I also wasn't very educated. I didn't focus on school. I, you know, I grew up around alcoholism and drug abuse and, you know, bike bikers and, um, it just wasn't.

A good environment for a kid at all. Right? And so even when I became a teenager and I would watch my mom get beat and abused, I was still, I. Six foot one, but only like 155 pounds I was scrawny in. Right. My, my stepdad, the abuser, this guy was known as a literal badass. Like he was known for going to the bar and getting in fights with three dudes at one time and taking all three of 'em out, right?

And, and so that, that lore, that, that fear of what he was capable of. Always made me feel like I can't do anything. I'm helpless here. And it was a horrible position to be in. It was a horrible way to feel. And, um, that's why I joined the Air Force at 17. I wanted to be a cop. I wanted to, I wanted to be a protector and I wanted to learn how to do that.

And I wanted to do it as soon as possible. 

Yeah. Yeah. And so. What was your relationship with your mother like? You know, did you resent her for continuing to get with these same men? Was that conversation you ever had with her or you were just like, my mom makes her decision, she's a grown woman, and I'm her son and I have to deal with it, but like what, how did that affect your relationship with her?

That's a great question. Really great question. So, uh, when I was young, uh, my mom was everything to me, right? Obviously I didn't know my father. Uh, I do have a sister that's a year younger, and I have a brother that's 10 years younger and his biological father is the one I'm referring to that would beat my mother when I was a teenager.

Um, and so I always just felt sorry for her. I felt bad for her. You know, my mom said she was abused sexually growing up, and she had me at 16. She had my sister at 17, so by the time she was 18, she was a single mother with two kids. And so my mom just, you know, did a really good job of making me feel like she was helpless that.

The situations that she is in, there was just nothing she could do about it. She was helpless and I was young and dumb and naive, and I believed all that. But obviously as I have gotten older and wiser and can get more on the outside looking in, I. That did cause a big rift in our relationship. It it, I had a period of time where I didn't talk to her at all.

I had cut her out of my life completely, but it was largely because when I approached her and told her these things and the things she could do to live a better life and be better for herself. Instead of taking that option, she just became defensive and nasty and ugly towards me. Yeah. Which was the first time I had ever experienced that with her.

Um, and so I cut her outta my life for a little while and then after time passed, you know, I, we are back in each other's life, but it's a totally different dynamic than it was back then. 

For sure. Yeah, no, I totally get that. I think it's one of those situations where it's, you can only feel so bad to a degree, especially in the case of repeat behavior, of continually making those choices when a person has been offered opportunities to escape those circumstances or to pursue something better.

So I totally get that and I, it sounds like, you know, you learn to. Love and forgive your mother, but to set boundaries and acknowledge where there needs to be accountability. And so you talk about at 17, wanting to escape, join the military to learn how to actually enact that protection that you was so instilled in you to want to have from, from what you went through.

So what was your experience like with the Air Force? What job did you end up getting while in the service and how long were you in for? 

So I served in the Air Force for four years. I was a security policeman and, um, I thought the Air Force was going to be my career. I had joined it with the intention of staying in the Air Force and retiring.

Uh, it just didn't work out that way. I, I worked really hard. I tried really hard to make rank and Excel, and then just one day, um. A master sergeant kind of derailed my whole career by, uh, writing up this report lying about this quality control QC that he said that he did on me, that he didn't actually even perform.

He just lied about it. And so it made me rethink everything about how if someone with rank and power just wants to screw you. You're really powerless. There's nothing you can do. Yeah, because they have the rank, they have the power. So that ultimately got me out of the Air Force. Uh, it made me say, I need to figure out something else with my life.

And so I did end up going to college and getting a bachelor's degree, uh, in communications from there. And then after college, uh, I ended up joining the Army for four years as well. 

I just recall when I was in the service, one of our, our worst leaders was the master chief. And he said, quote, I have a anchor with two stars on it.

I don't have to justify anything. I do, I don't have to explain anything. I do, I I am just right. It's why I had this anchor of two stars. Uh, the, the power trips, the lack of accountability and the. The way the military is set up is just so flawed when it comes to that idea of rank is justice. Uh, it's not, you know, there are still people who are high ranking who can be flawed characters, morally flawed or just making a wrong decision at that time or maybe an unsmart decision and we've seen it.

Yeah. Where like, I literally had a, a case where I heard a captain say. I believe this is wrong, but an admiral was telling me to do it and therefore has to be done, you know, and a lot of the best leaders I had in the military were lower ranked because they had gone to mast for defending their sailors, taking care of their sailors, and they were the lowest ranking.

It was always the nicest. People, the best leaders I had were the lowest ranking because the way to get ranked was screwing over other people, you know, kissing up or playing favorites and, and just hating life, you know? And I think that you do what a lot of people in the military. Do, which is they saw more potential for themselves out in a civilian world where there weren't so many restraints, red tape and so much of that toxic culture where leadership was.

Yeah. There's a lot of times in the military where you do feel like you're just an object or just a number or you know, one person can completely change your life and you have literally no say over it. Even. Even in the cases of like, at least in the Navy, you know, I can't speak on behalf of the other branches, but what I saw from the Navy.

Court system was basically there, there is nothing They, if they, if they think you're guilty, you're guilty. Doesn't matter what evidence there is, you can push to go to court more or civilian side court. It's a lot of work to do that. It's a long time, a long process, and they basically make you just give up before you even start.

But yeah, it's like you are treated basically as like whatever they say goes, you know, and that. Cultures is so bad, and I don't know if you want to input a little bit more on that. 

Yeah, I mean, I, I will even go as far as to say that, um. When I joined the Army, I, I actually had it worse than what happened to me in the Air Force.

So, you know what happened to me in the Air Force? I was 20 years old still trying to figure out life. I didn't have any male role models or, or anyone to turn to, to say, oh, this is what happened to me. Because, you know, hindsight being 2020, me being an older man who has now seen a lot more and experienced a lot more, um, it's not the all the be all and all that.

I made it out to be at 20 years old. And that's another reason I want to put myself out there is because. I wanna give people advice that haven't been through it yet. I want to help people that haven't been through it yet because I wish somebody would've been able to do that for me. So just to follow that up, exactly what you were saying.

When I was in the Army, I. My supervisor, sergeant, first class, he was having sex with another soldier, one of my peers, one of my equals. Mm-hmm. And he wa and he was married with two kids. And so he ends up getting her pregnant and then I. Um, you know, he, he ends up going over to Saudi Arabia volunteering, and two weeks before he was due to return, um, he hung himself at Saudi Arabia because I guess he thought he was hoping to die there because of the situation he had put himself into.

Wow. But, but that's, that's just talking about what kind of person he was and who I had to deal with while I was in the Army because he was my supervisor for most of my career. But also, uh, I had an incident where in the Army that. I, I, I got out of the army with a general, under honorable conditions discharge.

I didn't even get an honorable discharge because this other sergeant and I were having a sexual relationship, and, and so she got mad when I tried to cut it off, and she tried to write me up and get me in trouble because she outranked me and so. When I went to our leadership and said, you know, this isn't true, she's lying.

And they were like, why is she lying? Why? What reason would she have to make this up? You know? So I had to come out with the truth. I had to tell him the truth. And so she came out and said, yeah, we had sex, but we had sex when he was the branch, N-C-O-I-C. We never had sex when he left that position and I was over him and it was a complete and total lie, and like you were alluding to my first sergeant, my commander just decided to believe her with no this.

This woman outranked me by one month, by 30 days. They decided I was lying. She was telling the truth even though I'm the one that brought out all the information in the first place. And I got demoted from sergeant back to specialists, and then I got outta the Army with that general, under honorable conditions discharged.

So yeah, once, once leaderships and commanders decide whatever they decide there's nothing you can do about it. 

Yeah, I know. Um, for everyone listening, uh, great stories. David Nathanson came on the show and he was gonna be a four star general, and, uh, the commander, he replaced because she could not do her job, uh, accused him of sexism when he had been ordered to replace her.

It wasn't his choice. He didn't show up and say, Hey, I think you're doing a bad job. He was following orders. Um, there were times in the military where I had to give orders to people or make things happen, and they, uh. They always take it personable, shoot the messenger kind of thing. But there's, there's always higher up pulling the strings, but the higher ups won't take responsibility for it.

You know, they won't come in and say, Hey, yeah, I, I, I told so and so to do this, you know? No, that's not how it works. Uh, they, they wash their hands of it, you know? Um. I've had plenty of leaders in the military who would just say, Hey, you go do this and that. 'cause I, I don't feel like doing it or I don't, I don't wanna take the blame for it, you know?

It's, uh, especially when you're new to any command or something, you know, you get tasked with everything and, uh, it's just a bad time. And as far as like what you were mentioning, there's a lot of, um. At least what I saw in the Navy was, well, it's how they feel is the truth. Not what do the facts or evidence say specifically in a case of anything related to sexual harassment, assault, whatever it may be, it's, well, how do, how did the person feel?

That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if there's all this counter evidence proving this never happened or this could never have happened. Um, and I've seen at least in the military, a lot of, uh, because at least in the Navy, the way it works. From what I saw is one of the only ways to guarantee your, uh, you could change commands and have a little more say over it was if you had been sexually harassed or assaulted, or X, Y, Z.

And so a lot of people were making false claims just to move their chain of command. We had an individual who had done so four times in a row, you know, and we say, well, hey, this person has. Done it over and over again. Don't you see a pattern? And of course someone super defensive and, and very, you know, politically, one way about it was like, well that's because people who are sexually harassed or this times many likely to have it happen again.

And our counter argument was, if someone has gotten their change of command, move to somewhere better because they falsely accused someone and they got less, you know, responsibilities as a sailor or a soldier. And then it happened again and again and every time they've done it, it's worked. Then maybe there's a chance that they're gonna keep doing it 'cause it works and it's now become a tool for them to manipulate, which is awful because there are a lot of cases of sexual harassment, assault in the military that, um, I.

Or not getting the proper treatment because of this, but now this, over branching, everything is true. Everything is always true. It screws over a lot of sailors and soldiers. Even in the case of there's evidence supporting that it's not true. And like you said, maybe they're not doing it to change commands.

Maybe they're doing it because in your case, you know. They, they had something that they wanted and, and you weren't in line with that. And because of that, I've seen it in the cases of they didn't like their leadership, right? So let's accuse them of sexual harassment or assault to get them swapped out where someone else, or, you know, they ordered me to have watch one day when I didn't want to, and now I'm gonna get revenge by falsely accusing them.

It's become such a weaponized tool in the military. 

Yeah, that's, it's, I definitely felt it when I was there and you know, it's, it's such a double-edged sword talking about the issues in the military because I. A lot of who I am is because of my four years in the Air Force. I was 17 to 21 years old. It really truly made me grow up and made me understand a lot of things like responsibility, hard work, dedication, so many.

Tools I took from the military that helped me be a better man and live a better life. But at the same time, like you're talking, there's a lot of things that are broken in the military that still need to be fixed. A lot of old school thinking, um, you know, just I'm, I'm the type of person that whether you're a leader in the military or in the civilian world.

You should treat others the way you want to be treated. That's that's peers, that's loved ones, that's subordinates, that's anyone, right? Sometimes a leader has to be a leader and you have to make a call that not everyone's going to like, but even you can approach that in a way. That doesn't, you know, have to be so devastating or difficult for someone to take in or do.

And, and I just think that's where a lot of people just get it wrong. They, they abuse that authoritative position. Mm-hmm. And they don't, they don't worry about any repercussion of their behavior because they're the boss. They're in charge. And, and that needs to be fixed. 

For sure. And I don't want to keep going down the military path 'cause there's a lot more to your life.

But what I will say is, you know, you talk about leading and, and being how you want others to treat you. And what I'll say is one of the stories I share a lot on my show and other shows is the fact that I had, you know, a leader who said, y'all don't have it worse than me. So I really don't care unless you had it worse than me.

By a good amount. Uh, I really don't care because you guys have it better than me already, because I had came up to him and said, Hey, you know, we're standing duty day every other day, port and starbird, or sometimes three section, but we have enough manning and hours and we could set it up where we're only doing it every five or six days, which is a huge difference from having 24 hour shift every other day to having it every five days.

That is a huge. Impact and he goes, Hmm, no, you, I don't care. Because I had to watch paint dry when I joined the Navy and you guys had to stand this watch where you're just standing in front of a door for hours. I don't care. I don't care how many people we have or if we can do it, you have it better than I had it already.

That's enough. And like that infuriated me. That was one of the moments where I just really hated the military. And it's like, because that's an example of like as a leader. You wanna pull people up with you, not push others down to raise yourself up. You know, you, I mean, you're supposed to be making a better system in place and environment and culture than when you got there.

The goal is always to leave it better. Or if you're staying there to continually improve it, right? It's all about the next generation. It's the same as parenting, right? You want it to be better than your kids. I, I like, I hate when parents are like, you know, you have it so much better than me. That's the point.

That means you've done a good job as a parent, right? You're supposed to be setting it up where it's better, you know, you're supposed to be setting up your workplace where it's better. So that mentality of you don't have it worse than me, so I don't care. But if we can make things better at no cost to him, that's the worst part.

It would cost him nothing. He doesn't stand the watch. He doesn't what? He has to make the watch bill a little differently. I offered to do it for him. I mean, what more could you want? It doesn't affect you, us having life better other than your own selfish, envious, and salty feelings. So that, that's one of the things I hate.

And I was gonna say, um, I lost it. It was about the military, but I'll let you comment on that. 

No, it's, you're, you're right. It's not just the military, but bad leaders create bad leaders and it's. It's more likely than not, it's, I was lucky. I grew up in a bad environment, in a bad situation in life. Now I wasn't lucky for that, but I was lucky that I always had the mentality, even since I was young, I.

To look at people that are doing wrong and making mistakes and say, I'm not going to be like that. I'm not going to make those same mistakes. Now, did I get that a hundred percent right? No. I've still obviously made mistakes in life and I've been under a lot of bad leaders, but. I've been fortunate enough to know and take that kind of leadership and say, well, that's exactly how I'm not going to teach someone or lead someone when I get into that position.

And a lot of people just take the easy out. That's what they had to deal with. So they just do the same thing. 

Yeah. The uh. The concept is, I, I do appreciate the, uh, my parents taught me what not to do. You know? I mean, that is still being taught something, although I'd rather have someone who is, you know, teaching us what to do.

But I, I get it, and I, I will say what you mentioned there, and going back to you talked about like. You don't wanna just hate the military because it made you who you are and it's kind of part of you. I remember I spoke to a marine, uh, veteran when I was joining the service, and he said that he hated it.

He wouldn't do it except for one thing. He said. While he hated the military, specifically the Marines, he said the principle of discipline that he learned from it was very beneficial. He said nothing else was beneficial, he said. Whatever he did in the Marines did not transfer over to the civilian world at all.

You know? He said, yeah, he made some, you know, good friends who are like brothers and sisters. But he said at the end of the day, the biggest thing was the discipline and the work ethic and, and I agree with that, but like you said, at the same time, is that stuff we could get outside of the military?

Probably to the same degree. Not necessarily, but there are plenty of lessons that I'm sure you and I learned in the military that we could have learned in the civilian world. 

Maybe, and maybe not. I mean, there's, you know, I've, the only thing that, the only thing that comes close to the brotherhood you create in the military is the brotherhood you get from playing sports.

You know, I've never, I've never achieved that kind of brotherhood in any type of civilian job. And I've had several and, and quite a few of them, you know. Corporate type jobs and it's just, it's a different animal than military life. And I will say that I actually absolutely loved my time in the Air Force if I didn't only have that one negative incident.

That really forced me to rethink everything. Yeah. And get out. I don't really have anything negative to say about my time in the Air Force except for that incident and the fact that they stuck me in Minot, North Dakota. So between those two things, you know, I really loved the Air Force. That's the truth.

Now, the Army totally different. I can't say I liked the Army even at all. I didn't like the Army. The only thing. The only two good things that came outta the army for me were one, I got my MBA while I was in the Army, and two, uh, it brought me to Arizona, which is where I still currently live. 'cause I love it here in Arizona.

Yeah, no, I, I get that and. Yeah, there were certain things I liked. Well, I will say ladies and gentlemen, if you are a veteran and you want that feeling of that military life, get a blue collar job with 12 hours rotating shit work that has dangerous stuff. And 'cause when I was at the chemical production plant in the railroads, I mean, it felt like I was in the military still.

Trust me. So you can find some semblance of it if you want. Uh, you just gotta basically lit. You can find the worst parts of it, you know, but I, I agree. You know, 'cause I, I try to explain to civilians the way you just bond differently. I talk about like, you know, you have friends in the civilian world, but you don't live, eat, sleep and breathe with them 24 7.

In the military you do for the most part, not everyone, but you do. And also just some of the stuff you go through that, um, only y'all can relate to. You know, it does make that closer bond so. Uh, I just wanna go back over how long were you out of the Air Force before you went into the Army? Um, 

almost nine years.

About eight and a half years. And, wow. Yeah, I didn't, um, I didn't think, I didn't think I would ever join the military again when I left the Air Force. Uh, it was a, it was a combination of, um. Toxic relationship. I was in a, so I was on my second marriage. Um, I've been divorced three times. I'm on my fourth marriage now.

I was on my second marriage. I met her in college. She had the face of Angelina Jolie and the body of a fitness model, and. She was incredibly intelligent. She had a master's degree in chemistry with a 4.0 GPA. But the problem is, is that combination and the same person makes for someone who thinks I. The sun rises and sets on them, right?

I mean, she was beautiful. She knew it, she was smart, she knew it, so therefore, she could never be wrong. Everything was had to be her way. And so I, I was really attracted to her and we had this toxic magnetic relationship where we couldn't get away from each other. But I needed to get away from her because it was bad for me.

She was bad for me, and my career wasn't going anywhere in, in Ohio where I'm from. And uh, I knew the only way I could really, I. Get away and start over was the same way I did it at 17, was go in the military. So, um, I actually tried to become an Air Force officer first, and I got screwed over in that process.

I, I spent eight months with the recruiter building a package, getting interviewed and approved by a colonel, like all these things, and then this guy got orders to Germany and then my packet just disappeared. The recruiter. No one knows what happened in my packet. That sounds so, yeah, so I was so. Pissed off about this that I literally walked out of the Air Force recruiting office across the hall into the Army recruiting office and said, what do you guys got for me?

And I talked to him and, you know, I was, I was physically fit, strong athletics. So the physical part of being in the army didn't scare me. Um, you know, I was just worried about. Every, every branch has a reputation of what they are. Yeah. Culture. Yeah. So I was worried about the culture and that, and, and rightfully so because it did end up being a problem for me.

Uh, but that's how I ended up in the Army. It was literally not a plan at all. It was, it was just spur of the moment kind of decision. And there I 

was. If I did the math correctly, you were going on almost 30 when that happened. I 

actually turned 30 on my, the day of graduation from Army Bootcamp. That was my birthday.

I. Wow. Okay. 

So it wasn't one of those situations where they said, Hey, you went to Air Force Bootcamp. You're, you're good to just go straight in. They said, you gotta, you were in, they probably said you were in the chair force, buddy. You gotta do bootcamp 

twice. So, yeah, that's exactly right. So if it would've been the other way around, if I had been in the Army first, the Air Force would've let me.

Skip bootcamp, even though I, I don't even really agree with that because having gone through both bootcamps, they're two very different, different bootcamps. Yeah. And so the Army Bootcamp does not equal the Air Force Bootcamp. Yes. The Army Bootcamp is super physical and demanding on you physically. And they do have a stretch there where they try to, uh, exhaust you and, you know, make you.

Make you do stressful things without sleep, um, sleep deprivation. But the Air Force, the whole time to me was just mentally demanding so much more than the physical. So I actually had a harder time with Air Force Bootcamp than Army Bootcamp. 

That's interesting because I remember, um. Uh, shit, may of mine who was talking about the Coast Guard was very physic, um, or very mentally demanding.

The, the bootcamp he said way more than, uh, other branches. So that's interesting and, and what I'll say is, um, did anyone at their recruiting office for the Army try to dissuade you saying like, Hey, pal, you were in the military once before. Why would you ever do that again? Or did they kind of just ignore it?

Uh, actually they kind of, they played it pretty cool. They acted like, oh, your prior service, uh, you know, we don't even know if we even want you because we're not really taking prior service right now. And so, um, I went and took the ASVAB before I was going to rejoin the Air Force. And, and, um, you know, I, I don't like to brag.

I like to be humble, but. They saw my ASVAB scores. They, they, they looked me up and saw my ASVAB scores and I basically scored a perfect score across the board on asvab. And then they were like, oh, I think we can take you. So, yeah, so it changed once they saw my ASVAB scores. 

Yeah. Well, yeah. I was gonna say, it's more of a courtesy thing.

Trust me, the, the military is always hurting for people. So, you know, they're not gonna be like, okay, we we're gonna, we're not allowed to take you to your prior service. I think it's more of a courtesy thing, but yeah. Yeah. And then how long were you in the army for? 

I also did four years. Um, even that's an I, dude, I could sit here all day and tell you just crazy stories, so, uh.

When I was going to join the Army initially, I actually was on a three-year contract. I was going to be in the supply chain and I was gonna go to, um, Fort Jackson for my bootcamp, and a week before I was supposed to join. Army Bootcamp. I had sliced my hand all the way across here. I got into the tendons and everything.

Literally just moving my stuff into a storage so I could go to bootcamp. So when I went back to the recruiter and told him, he was like, well, hell, we have to scrap your whole contract. You have to start all over again. So I had to start all over and I could, they didn't have any more openings, so I actually became a food inspector and I had to do a four year contract, and then I had to go to bootcamp at Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

So it completely changed my trajectory. Yeah. 

Well, a lot of people would say that was very intentionally, you know, not your intention, but just that was the path that was meant to, you know? Yeah. Freak accident gets hand sliced, completely changes career path, you know, people would say, but hey, life is crazy.

You know? That's right. That up to your podcast and um, yeah, I know. We're slowly making our way there. Um, before we get to the podcast, I, I, I do wanna talk about, we've kind of brushed over it, which is, um, your requirements to rank up your divorces, you know, um, you had a couple of those. What would you say, I know you kind of mentioned some contributing factors for your one particular then wife, but for overall, would you say your marriages were.

Negatively affected from the, the childhood, uh, observance of your mother's relationships from the military lifestyle, from, 'cause there was a long period where you weren't in the military. So what was really going on with all of these marriages, including the third one as well after that? I don't know if that was after the Army or during, 

um, I met her during the Army actually.

Uh, so yeah, I mean, I was just at different points in my life still. Broken. Um, I would say, you know, we're all still working on even at 50 trying to be a better man and a better person. Yeah. But I always had a, a fight or flight kind of personality, and so I married my first wife in the Air Force in Minot, and it was more of a marriage of convenience.

It was more of a marriage of. She's in the Air Force. She's a pharmacy technician. I'm an Air Force. I'm a cop. She lives in her BAH. Yeah, she lives in her barracks. I live in my barracks. We're together. Screw it. Let's just get married and get this nice base housing and, and get money to go shop at the grocery store.

You know, all that stuff that you get to do, um, when you're married in the military. And so, um, you know, during that marriage she was just a really negative person and she had a really negative attitude. Mm-hmm. And I try to always stay positive even no matter, you know, what kind of shit storm is raining down on me.

Uh, I'm not saying I always do, I just try. And so that, that wore to its end. It, it came to its end where I couldn't deal with it anymore. And then I just told you. So the second one, the part I didn't tell you about her was we were together for five years just dating. Like, oh, okay. When I say dating, I, I don't mean like she lived in her place.

I lived in my place. We were just boyfriend and girlfriend. We lived together, all that. But the discussion of marriage never came up. And then. She just finally threw an ultimatum on me one day, like, you either need to marry me or get out. I'm not living like this anymore. And so I told you how we had that toxic magnetic pool.

I wasn't ready to end it, so I gave in to the, uh, ultimatum and then with within six months it was over, I left. So it, it, it was a huge mistake. And then the third time I did meet her in the Army, I did think, um. She was going to be my life partner. I thought this was who I was going to die with. We had two sons together, and, um, 12 years in, she decided she didn't want to do it anymore.

Um, and it, it shocked me to my core because for almost the entirety of our marriage and relationship, I heard from her regularly. You're the love of my life. I don't know what I would do without you. You know, my life would never be the same without you. And then kind of from nowhere, in my opinion, um, she just decided she didn't want to be in it anymore.

And so in that time, that's, I also got laid off from my job The second time I had been laid off because we haven't really talked about my career trajectory. Yeah. And so now I was losing my wife, my kids, and I lost my job, my career, and I was suicidal at that time. Um. Obviously I lived, uh, to be here today, and so I was still in fight or flight mode.

I still hadn't completely healed or repaired or been a better man from that. And then I, I met my now current wife who I. I realize I really do want to spend the rest of my life with her. I don't wanna know what life is like without her. And for that to happen, I had to make some changes. I had to, I.

Because I grew up under the abusive environment of physical abuse where I watched my mom get beat and, and hit and thrown around. I thought I literally could just say whatever I wanted outta my mouth and I was a better man because I was beating you or hitting you. So the bar, the bar was low because I wasn't right.

I wasn't. Treating someone well with words and, and that was something I had to learn to be better at. I didn't know how to fight. Fair. That's the best way to put it. I was nasty and I was mean in fights and that's something that I was actually started to do with my current wife and I could see how. It was really affecting her and affecting the way that she looked at me and affected our relationship.

And I knew I had to stop or I was going to lose her and I was gonna be divorced a fourth time. So, um, she really is the reason that I lost that mentality and personality. 

Yeah, that kind of comparing bad to worse, right? The, the lesser of two evils concepts. So that's definitely interesting and I think it is something very common, you know, where it's like, you know, I'm treating you better than he was, or I'm treating you better than so-and-so treated so and so.

I think it's a easy mentality to fall into, you know, be like, Hey, there's worse. I mean, we hear a lot of parents say that, you know, it's like, um. Even, you know, we had injuries and deaths on my ship, and the Mick Pond came and gave a speech and said, lower your standards. You're not living in a foxhole. And, uh, he got removed for saying that because we had, you know.

Set the record for suicide. But you know, it's that that kind of mentality can be very dangerous and, and harmful to a relationship. For sure. And you kind of mentioned that we haven't really gotten into the rollercoaster of a ride, uh, career journey that you've been on that's as crazy as your life is.

And it seems like from, from what I've heard, the. Two segments of military didn't really translate at all into the civilian world, if I'm understanding correctly, or they did, or what, what does that play into all of this? 

Well, I, I would say the jobs themselves didn't, I mean the, the characteristics and the personality development.

Right, right. That, that translates, you know, the. The, uh, you know, and it also just makes you more appreciative when you do have a good situation and a good atmosphere. Yeah. Uh, because I mean, I had bad leaders in the military. I have had bad leaders in corporate world. I've had bad leaders in, you know, retail jobs.

Um, so when you get a good one. It makes you appreciate that situation more. And yeah, and, and so that's one of the things that I've taken away from those different environments is really just appreciate when you have something good. Because I have left, I have job hopped for a higher income, for a better, you know, my career has been, I have been laid off twice.

Um, and those were devastating, but. I've also had jobs where I had a good job, I made a good income and I went and looked for something else so I could even make more money. 'cause it was all about the money. I was chasing the money and then I might leave and go get more money. You know, even maybe $20,000 a year more.

The atmosphere isn't as good and the leadership sucks, and you know, then all of a sudden you realize, well, maybe this money isn't worth all the extra headache and BS I put up with. So you have to consider all of those things. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. No, I, I totally agree. And so what are you doing right now besides the podcasting?

So I'm actually a, a subcontractor for the va. Um, and so what's what the VA is trying to do, which many people are probably aware of because it has cost so much money, um, is they're trying to overhaul their electronic healthcare record system, which the DOD already did. And so I am a part of that system that's trying to help the va.

Transition. It's almost 200 locations from their old system to the new system. 

Yeah. And so what I'd like to get into for a little bit actually before we, you know, focus in more, a lot of veterans, a lot of civilians who have their opinions, um, a lot of people are pretty. Much against the VA for a variety of reasons.

We've discussed the VA on, on the show before and not the best light from now working kind of in tandem with them to some degree. Has that changed your perspective? Do you have any insight that would be helpful to, uh, a lot of the negativity and hate out there towards the va? 

Um, yeah, and if you don't, 

you're allowed to say no, they suck.

No, no, no, 

no. It's, it's a double-edged sword for me. Right. Yeah. Because, like you just said, I, I do work with some of these people and, um, you know, I, at the end of the day. People are people. Right. And government jobs are government jobs, right? Yeah. And let's be, let's be honest, there's not a lot of accountability and a lot of government jobs, and that is a problem.

That's, that's a real issue. And the VA is no different than that. There are of course, some good people that do good things and, and they're. Not the norm, but I would say by and large is the norm is they show up to work and they do as little as they have to do to get through the day and collect that paycheck.

And it's sad because like you, I'm a veteran, I use the va. Um, I, that's the healthcare system I use and I've really had to fight and push. Mm-hmm. To get seen for some of these issues that I've had, uh, with myself and, um, and sometimes that means for the exact same reason, going back there, 2, 3, 4 times until finally someone takes you seriously.

Yeah. Or takes the, takes the right step. But it's, it can be frustrating. It can be overwhelming because they should do it the first time you show up and they don't. So yeah, I, I know that the VA is not a good healthcare system and it needs to get better and, but I also don't think. Taking away the money from it is going to do anything but make it worse.

Well, yeah, for sure. 

And you know, like you said, people are people into, it's a system that's driven economically, right? Uh, we've had some episodes on my show talking about, uh, decisions by the VA that were not beneficial to the veterans, but to other organizations in tandem with the VA for economic reasons.

Specifically the blocking of a bill that would. Allow veterans, uh, instead of going to school with a GI Bill, post nine 11 bill to go through this business course and get startup funding to start their own business because not every veteran wants to go to college. And it always gets blocked by these big universities who are the number one recipients of the gi.

Yeah. And, uh, post nine 11 bill. So, you know, that's a different, different conversation. But what I wanna do is focus in on, you know, we've had a, a extensive conversation here, and kind of what I want to do is. Kind of summarize, you know, some of the main lessons you've learned from all of this, right? We've talked about marriage, divorce, parenting, military leadership, a lot of different topics.

What would you say are the most important lessons that you wanna put forward or that resonate with you on a daily basis? 

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, I would say a couple things. Uh, first and foremost, I would say your. Mentality, no matter what you're going through, right? Life is what you make it.

Nothing is more true than that. You know, I've been in some horrible situations. I've been screwed over by people countless times. I've been laid off, uh, a couple times, um, where I was literally going to be homeless. Uh, if I didn't find a way to. Uh, save myself, which is not something we ever got into, but, um, and, and through all that, you have to, you have to keep your head up and you have to look at life with a positive thought in that, I'm going to get through this, you know, I'm, this too shall pass, right?

I, I'm going to be fine. And, and just stay positive and focus on the future now. In having said that, the way you want to do that is. Keep doing the right things. Right. A lot, you know, when people get down or depressed or whatever, they maybe give into drinking and become alcoholics or, yeah, they start taking drugs.

Or even just something as simple as, you know, becoming a chronic weed smoker, for example. All these things that can derail you from having the life that you're capable of living and capable of having. Mm. You can't, you can't give into that. You still have to do the right things, even when it feels like the right thing isn't working for you, it isn't happening for you.

You know, when I went through my divorce and I got, uh, laid off at the same time, I was unemployed for almost four years. Four years I was, yeah. And, um, so. I could have easily gave up on life there, I could have easily stopped doing the right things because I could have just said, look at my situation, look at my circumstances.

You know? Right. I, I, I have every right to feel this way and be this way. Um. But that's not how I lived. I kept living, trying to become better, uh, learn more, and I just kept persistently trying to work myself out of that situation, finding a way out of that situation. And I. Hundreds and hundreds of job applications and things that I applied for that I never heard from anyone.

I had a handful of interviews that I didn't get the job. You know, all things that would make, maybe make you want to give up. But I didn't. I just kept going. I kept driving forward and I'm so glad I did because as I alluded to earlier in the podcast, you know, my life is actually fin finally starting to level off in my fifties, where I have a normal life where there, where it isn't full of ups and downs, you know, my relationship is consistent.

It's not toxic. It's not either great. Or explosive and horrible, you know, my, my income and my job is consistent. My, uh, relationship with my sons is consistent. So, you know, there's just something great about not having the highs and lows that I don't think maybe even I could have appreciated without going through everything I've gone through.

Yeah, I, I wanna say kind of what you said, which is that, uh, ignoring or combating that gravitation towards negative destressors, you know, like you said, the smoking, uh, the alcohol, uh, I include, you know, excessive sex or sleeping in that as well. You know those negative destressors? Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so, like you said, a lot of people turn to these things to cope and, and there's no benefit to it long, long term.

There's just a bunch of negative effects to it and temporarily might take your mind off of that stuff. But there's a lot of positive destressors that you can do that will help you not only de-stress, but to also reap benefits from it. Uh, it. That, that aren't even related to the situation. And like you said, uh, you know, there it all works out.

It's just sometimes so many people get focused too much on short-term thinking when it comes to, people are bad at thinking long-term positively, and they're very good at thinking short-term, negatively. And you need to, I think, swap that. I think you need to. Think more long term about consequences for things and more positively about what can be done in the meantime.

And so you've taken a lot of these lessons in your life as well as a lot of the craziness of your life to make your podcast. Who should go check that out? What kind of is, does the episode to episode kind of look like? 

Well, so, uh, that's a good question. The first 25 episodes of my podcast. Are the story of my life.

I literally start from childhood with the, you know, 2-year-old story that I told you about today, and then I, I take it all the way out through the ups and downs and the highs and lows of what I've gone through. It's really raw. I don't hold anything back. I talk about everything from. My suicide attempts to, uh, you know, the great loving marriage that I have now from my wife who I met in Brazil.

So, um, it's, it's, it's for anyone, right? It's, it's a great story. It's for anyone who has. Gone through trauma or is dealing with trauma and it shows you that you can come out the other side and, and that, and that in turn is what the rest of my podcast focuses on after the story of my life is. The, uh, ability to recover from any situation.

And the lessons, not only that I have learned, but my guests also have learned. So I'm, I'm, I'm going to focus on having a lot of guests that have a history of trauma and are either on the other side of it or are working their way through it. Mm-hmm. So others can identify with that and understand. Uh, that there is a way out, they can see a light at the end of the tunnel because it is easier to just give up and give in, right, than it is to stay the course.

You know, that's the harder part. That's the hardest thing to do, is stay the course. So that's really what I try to focus on. 

Yeah, I'd like to. Share something for the military. Uh, we say take a hit and keep going. You know, and that, uh, that mentality can be very powerful. And, you know, there's times where you should take time to have self-care, to rash, to recover, to heal.

Uh, but there's also a lot of times where. We need to take a hit and keep going. And because you can't overcome that, and uh, like you said, it's a lot easier to just give up. But, uh, life isn't about being easy. It's about, you know, what can we push through and, and work together with others in ourselves to get done so that we can get so much more out of life?

And so we're gonna have, you know, your show. And everything, your website and a description below so people can check out your social medias, check out your podcast, give it a listen or reach out to you to be a guest, as well as just your other profiles and information. But I wanna thank you for coming on the show today.

I know we kind of did a 30,000 foot overview. You know, uh, that's because you have your own show dedicated to this entire story. So I thank you for that overview and during that, what you were vulnerable with, what you were honest about, and what you were holding yourself accountable to. So, I, I thank you for that.

Like I said, ladies and gentlemen, if you want to get a much more detailed version of everything, especially, there's a lot of. Topics we didn't get to cover or we didn't go into as much. Check out The Life Is Crazy Podcast hosted by our guest here, Brandon Health. Reach out to him via his socials or his website to find out more.

But again, Mr. Health, thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.