Moving Forward, Not Moving On: Navigating Grief And Loss

Today, I'm having a conversation with grief expert and founder of Widows Rising Together, Dr. Lynn Banis. The discussion explores the profound and often misunderstood nature of grieving—not only the physical loss of loved ones but also the emotional and spiritual grief stemming from life-altering changes such as loss of identity, career transitions, and major life disruptions. 

Dr. Banis shares her deeply personal experiences with compounded grief, having lost her mother, brother, and husband within two-and-a-half years, revealing the complexities and challenges of grieving multiple losses simultaneously. Not only that, but losing the main support that she had for grief during all of that.

Then, Dr. Banis provides powerful insights and practical advice for anyone facing grief, emphasizing that grieving is not an endpoint but a natural and temporary part of life's journey. She highlights common pitfalls like burying oneself in busyness to avoid confronting emotions and underscores the importance of genuine community and emotional support.

We also address contemporary approaches to loss, including how "celebrations of life" positively reframe funerals to aid in healing, and shares strategies for preserving cherished memories without becoming trapped by them, such as story-sharing after someone has passed away, rather than living in fear of them.

Additionally, we address losing a life-partner and moving forward constructively after loss, maintaining honor and connection to those lost while building a new, purposeful chapter of life. Dr. Banis emphasizes that personal strength, trust in oneself, and a willingness to seek support are key elements of healing. 

https://app.widowsrisingtogether.com/

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Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and we have dove into grieving a time or two on the show in relation to the passing of loved ones, but today we're going to talk about how grieving is more than just death in our life. It can be that spiritual and emotional death, whether that's loss of identity, a career change, or any of those turning points in life, especially for military members, first responders, or any career where your identity, especially long term, was your job.

As well, again, of course, losing loved ones, all of these incidents in our life causes us to grieve, to become disoriented, and really disconnect from the world, and sometimes people for a long time. Time. So today we are here to talk about that with Dr. Lynn Banas here to talk about grieving and we're going to get right into it.

So, Dr. Banas, could you please introduce yourself for us? I sure can. My name is Dr. Lynn Banas. Um, I have been working with grief since I lost my mother. My little brother and my husband all within two and a half years time. Um, and going through the process, uh, I figured out, um, a process that I could use to help other people.

So that's what I'm doing now.  Yes, ma'am. And I know that you are the founder and run. Widows rising together. And for those of us listening, and for those of you watching, I'll describe the company's logo. It's like a woman's face with green hair coming down and then these blue wings on the side. And to me, Ms.

Bannis, it looks like a Phoenix. I feel like is the intention there. Can you go into the development of that logo?  Yeah, I, um,  Actually, I did have it done for me, but my instructions were to, um, keep it somewhat colorful and depict  the rising from the ashes. So I was thinking of Phoenix, too, but I didn't want a Phoenix because so many people have it.

Right. And, um, I really, I really think it turned out great. I love it.  Right, and then the, the phoenix's body being a woman, a widow, because really we are the phoenix. And I, I like the, was the colorful part kind of about, you know, that, that hope in that new life moving forward, because grieving is a part of life, it's a natural part, but it's a temporary state, it's not the end state.

And I, we've talked before on the show, in the case of my father, and many alcoholics and drug addicts out there, they make grieving their end state in some cases. Yeah, yeah, and that's why there's some green in there because that's, you know, kind of new life, spring new life.  Yeah, absolutely.  Yeah, so let's start with your personal journey.

You mentioned losing three individuals within such a short time span because grieving can take several weeks to several months, you know, and then to have it stack on top of one another like that. Let's get into  You know, that part of your life. Okay. So, you know, we call that multiple grief or continued grief or whatever, because you hardly have time to recover from one before the next happens.

And  now my mother was 106, so, you know, it wasn't. Unexpected, but she was doing so well. She fell and then broke 18 ribs in her leg. And so that was, you can't recover at 106 from that.  So, um,  that, uh, upset us all. Of course. Um, she, she was a dear, dear friend. I was fortunate. To make some super decisions going along that, um, I was going to find a job where I could be with her  and, um, that's when I went off and originally started my coaching business, um, which was executive coaching and I was able to do that from anywhere.

So I spent months with her sometimes in Florida, which we became best friends and it was awesome. But that made the loss very difficult.  And then I got a call in the middle of the night that my little brother had had a massive heart attack. And he's nine years younger than me. So it was like, Oh no,  I can't believe it.

Um, it was one of those things where he was in great physical shape. He ate properly,  but he wouldn't go to the doctor.  So, you know,  that, that catches up with you. You've got to take care of yourself that way too.  And then, uh,  shortly after that, I lost my husband. Uh, he had, uh,  complications with the surgery.

So that again was a shock because we didn't expect that at all, right? So, you know, that was, um,  I had retired quote unquote,  because I've gone back to work. But, um, you know, you said it takes a long time to get over grief in this compound grave. It's something that I don't think we really understand because we are all probably grieving and don't really know it know it because of all the changes in our world and in our country and you know, things are not the same.

We've lost.  The way we grew up and, and certain things. And, and so, um, that's, I think part of our stress in this country. People are so stressed out, but I think that's part of it. But anyway, um, you know, I, I hit,  I hit the deep grieving after Bill died because that was just like, you know, three punches in the gut.

Um, and that was.  That was, um,  it was really tough to take. Uh, you want me to go through what, what I did?  For sure. Yes, ma'am. You know, I think losing your husband too, for me, would be the, the worst part because that was your main person to support you during your grief because we've talked before on the show about the importance of community, the feelings and desires of isolationism during that time, but also The importance of having people there.

And I assume that your husband was supporting you through the loss of your mother and, and, and so to lose that too, it's like, who, who do you have to support you?  Well, I have three daughters, two of them live here. And so that was incredible. Um, and, uh, they were, they were, they were awesome. So I had that and the third one called me all the time.

So, you know, my, my family is, is pretty close and, and they were. They were able to rise up, but you know what they felt a terrible loss to,  um, of course. So, um,  so we kind of muddled through in the beginning together. And then, you know, as I'm sure people have told you, um,  once a couple of weeks, a month have taken place, everybody kind of disappears.

Now, my family didn't, but, you know, friends and stuff. It's, um, I wrote a, um, a post called beyond casseroles. What, um, yeah, yeah, you saw that and it's, it's about,  you know, this is what happens and we need to help people understand about grief because they don't know what to say, they don't know what to do, or they say the wrong thing that's hurtful, and so they're afraid to say anything, and that causes more isolation, um, you know, the thing is, you don't have to say anything, you can just, Just sit with someone, just be there for someone in those early stages, because that's what they need.

You know, they don't need to talk right away. They need to grieve.  So anyway, um, I went through a lot of that, but I did something that I would not urge my clients to do, and that was.  I really buried myself in being busy. Um, I decided that the big house I lived in was just absolutely too much for me to take care of by myself.

And so I did downsize. So that process of, um,  of being so busy and getting things ready and getting through sales and then. Purchase and getting a move that took me like nine months. And, um, shortly after that, I got really sick. I got sick for three months and I think my body was telling me, stop,  you know, you need to grieve. 

And you just need to, you know, pay attention to what your needs are. And so I learned a lot from that. And, um, I started using the tools that I have used with coaching clients, um, to help me clear my mind so that I could make decisions, good, proper decisions. And, um,  and then I did a lot of work with rewiring, you know, pathways and mindset and all that stuff, because you've got to get that straight  before you can even begin to think about  what moving forward means.

And, um, and so then I worked hard on what it was that I needed around me to support me. And 1 way to do that, which I do, and I don't think most people do is, um, have a, uh, an instrument that's really granular that helps you understand when you're in flow. These are the things that are going on the way you operate, as well as what's in the environment.

So that gives you a good idea of how to get good fit. And, um, so, you know, I use that  and then, um, I started to, um.  You know, work on vision. What do I want? Because so many people who've been through grief  don't move forward because they go back into that routine of what other people expect of them and what they think they should do. 

Um, so, you know, we've got to get people really clear on what's going to make you happy because it's your life and your next chapter can be very joyful and purposeful. But that gets blocked if you're doing what other people think you should do. Yeah.  So, um, after I started getting better, I kind of had a light bulb go off and I thought,  you know, I worked my way through that using the skills.

And the knowledge and the techniques that I have had all my life I can help people  get through this So that's when I decided to start my business  for sure. You know, I I agree with the Expectations part, you know,  i'm at the point where i've had so many episodes and been on so many shows I can't remember which one but I know I recently discussed with someone about how We want to, like, put everything in a box, and categorize everything, and patternize human behavior, and say, Hey, if you're recovering from alcoholism, here are the 12 steps.

If you're grieving, here are, like, the steps and the phases of grief. If you're doing this, we like to put phases and time cycles on everything, but really, We're all individualized, we're all unique human beings, and our emotional state and connection to events like that is so different. And yes, a lot of us will go through those, you know, steps and phases of grief, but not in the same time frame, you know, maybe not even in the same order.

Some of us might loop back around endlessly, or a few different times. So I think it's so important, like you said, to do what is for you, what is best for you. And I think  You know, one of the things I want to ask you as a professional grief counselor is I've noticed with the younger generations, I'm not sure who started it, but I've seen it very common among millennials, Gen Z, and beyond, they've stopped calling it a funeral and they call it a celebration of life.

Exactly. Do you view that as unhealthy denial or do you see it as a positive way of Moving forward from that loss, or is it each their own? I see. Well, yeah, each to each their own. That's that's important, but I see it as very positive because so many people feel like they can't. Talk about the person and that starts you being told about why what they did that other people loved and and I always just got such a sense of pride and happiness from knowing, you know, what Bill did for other people and how they felt about him.

And I know, um, other.  Widows and widowers that I've talked to  are saying the same thing, you know, and you can't have both. A lot of people do have both.  Um, but I think the, the opportunity with the celebration of life is, you know, it's set up just the name of it is positive,  right? And for us, the word funeral, you know, evokes sadness.

So, um, so I think that that that's a great  thing to do. And I would encourage people if that's what they feel they can do.  You know, it's interesting. A lot of people, like you said, will think that they just kind of want to move on. They don't want to hear anything about the person, but in my episode titled, you know, A Man's Son Committed Suicide, then God told him this.

Kevin Skillett was talking about how his son committed suicide, and then he said at the funeral, If, if you have a story about my son, you know, could you please come up and tell me? And he had a line of people telling him the stories, and it just like, Made him so happy and realized, you know, what a great son he had.

And so, you know, you talked about the same thing where hearing those stories, it just filled you with that, that pride and joy at a time where You know, you, you wouldn't have that. You think you would miss it so much, but I guess it's like, uh, ending things on a positive note, you know, just leaving that place of grieving, knowing that there was so much good there and that's what you should focus on.

So I think it's interesting. I think a lot of people want to run away from that, you know, don't say their name, don't bring up any memories, don't ever tell a story with them again. And so  what advice would you have for like working through those emotions? Well, those are, those are really tough things that get people stuck  because I like to talk about moving on rather than, um,  not, not moving forward rather than moving on because that person was an integral part of your life. 

So let's create a life that honors.  That person and your relationship and what you did together.  Um, and also fits the next chapter that you're going to be going through.  You know, so many people have things like, oh, I can't clean out their closet or, um, you know, that's okay until, you know, unless you're in there  handling the clothes and smelling them and, you know, getting yourself into a situation where.

Um, you're just going to grieve even harder. Um,  but the thing is, um, the person is gone and there's, you know, there's, uh,  women don't like to be called widows,  but then people started  talking about you're single. Well, they didn't like that either. It's such a hard cognitive leap to take. You know, I was.  A week ago, a wife, a mother, you know, on and on and on. 

And now I'm looking at a future that I don't recognize. I have no idea where I'm going, how to get there.  And right now I can't do anything but grieve.  And you just mentioned there a critical piece, which is part of your identity has been taken. Maybe it's your motherhood. Maybe it's being a wife. Maybe it's being a sister, a father, a brother.

You talk about a piece of your identity has just gone away when you lose that person. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is that when you lose someone that close, absolutely everything in your life changes from the time you get up in the morning to the time you go to bed at night. To even waking up in the middle of the night, grieving, maybe, you know, somebody used to be there that would support you maybe and, um, and so that is,  it's kind of like, you know, you were once, um,  had your feet on the ground and now you're walking several feet off the ground and you don't have any balance.

You don't have anything to support you and to  feel steady and solid.  Uh, so it makes it, it makes it even more difficult to figure out what in the world has happened, who am I,  what next?  Yeah, you know, I have had several guests on the show talking about suicides in their lives and other grieving stories. 

I know from personal experience, and I want to ask your personal experience, as a grief counselor and working with all these losses, I mean, how does that affect you? You know, hearing all these stories is, is painful. You know, I've been through it. It's um, almost a feeling of powerlessness too, to some degree.

Like, we can do what we are able to with the skills that we have to help comfort, to help guide, and to, most importantly, listen. Uh, but, you know, we can never Stop the death that's going on in the world to some degree and to bring those people back. So how is it working with people almost on a daily hearing these kinds of stories? 

Well, um, I think my training as a coach, um, it was very in depth and I, um, was a partner in a, in a coach training school. And so I, I can  keep myself separate.  Now, those stories, sometimes, you know, you, you finish with the client and, and you feel bad, but then I allow myself to grieve a little bit too, because, um,  If you don't, all that stuff gets stuck down inside of you, and we know what happens when we, when we don't release that kind of negative energy, we get sick.

And, um,  if you're an entrepreneur, you can't afford to get sick and not work. So, um, so being able to separate yourself.  From what's going on yet attend  directly and very closely to your client is a huge part of being a great coach.  Yeah, no, I totally understand that. And can you tell us a little more about widows rising together about, you know, what you offer and what you do? 

Okay. I, I really, you know, I've looked at this as something really positive. I consider it a lifeline. For so many people, and I've had clients that  have been widows for 10 years and haven't gotten through, you know, the Greek process because they're stuck somewhere. And so what I do is that I help people move through the fog  to having a very clear focus. 

And I do that generally one on one and I do have, um, I do have a, um, a group coaching program that I do, but of course the one on one is really important because that's when you really get to dig into the psychological and emotional issues to help people pass those. Um, but I will say I usually don't take a client until they've gotten through those first.

Um, stages of grief where, you know, they've got to be at the point where they can control their emotions a bit.  Um,  otherwise, you know, there's so much brain fog that they can't think and, um, I wouldn't want anybody to make a decision.  That they might turn around in a year or so and say, Oh, that was a mistake. 

Excuse me.  So, um, so I offer those sorts of things and I stay with my clients. I don't just leave them, you know, you're, you're. Commitment is over. I don't just leave them. I really try to work with them till I know that they are truly transitioned. And so I put them in a group after  they've been through the one on one so they can have that support of other people who are on their path to moving into their new life. 

Yeah, and we're gonna have your website in the description below for people to check out all the information on their directories blog posts courses And of course information to reach out to you whether they're grieving or know someone who is and so it really is  You know, a sad and somber topic, but I think it's great that we have people like you available, especially in those cases.

There's a lot of people grieving who are alone. We've already talked about loneliness and isolationism, and sometimes it's not intentional. Sometimes people just live solitary lives and the few people they know pass away. I mean, that's, that's it. So having access to a community. When you don't normally have one is so important, and I appreciate what you do.

And as we wrap up the episode here, I mean, what would be your final message to everyone in regard to grieving both the loss of people in our lives and just any, you know, tragedy in our life that is changing it and we're losing a part of herself or a part of her life?  Well, my, my, my comments would be,  trust yourself, you are strong, everything in your life that you've done to this point has really, in many ways, prepared you for it.

You've learned to make decisions, you've learned to prioritize, you've learned to think through things. So,  the question is,  Am I ready to trust myself because it's all there. I have what I need and I can get  folks to support me, you know, in the, in the process, because it is a process. And, you know, I always tell people, if you feel like you cannot do this yourself, get somebody like me who will take your hand and gently walk you through the process, because there is.

A great life out there for you.  I think that's beautiful. Like we said, this is all a message of hope, you know, that we are moving forward, not moving on. I really like that. So Dr. Lynn Banas, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this. And again, ladies and gentlemen, if you need her or know someone who does, we're going to have all that information in the description below.

But again, Dr. Banas, thank you for your time today. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it.