Special Warfare, Social Warfare: A Navy SEAL On Addiction, Identity, And Mentorship

Today, I sit down with Thomas J. LaGrave, a former Navy SEAL, author, and licensed clinical social worker, who brings a raw, unfiltered account of identity, addiction, and recovery. In this episode, we talk about what it means to lose something most people never get a chance to earn — a SEAL Trident — and how Mr. LaGrave found purpose again by mentoring youth and building a program that could transform the next generation.

Mr. LaGrave opens up about his time in the military, from becoming a SEAL during the post-Vietnam era to being discharged for drug use after nearly a decade of service. We dig into how addiction started in his adolescence and carried over into military life, exacerbated by stress, silence, and a lack of resources. He speaks candidly about the shame and identity crisis that followed, and how recovery began only after he turned himself in to the VA and committed to healing.

We also talk about his incredible work post-service. From working with adolescents in recovery to launching his nonprofit, Honor Bound Academy, Mr. LaGrave is building something deeply needed: a rite of passage program for young men that merges special forces mentorship, spiritual development, and emotional resilience. He shares how his book Special Welfare, Social Warfare: Adolescence to Adulthood is more than a memoir — it's a guidebook designed to mentor the 18-20 year-olds who often fall through the cracks.

We close with advice for both active duty military members and veterans struggling with identity, mental health, or transition. Mr. LaGrave emphasizes the power of owning your story, finding purpose in your pain, and leaning into brotherhood for support.

https://thomasjlagravejr.com/

https://a.co/d/a9Kqdvh

Referenced Episodes:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/over-30-years-of-service-the-good-and/id1657865479?i=1000631711924

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/psychological-warfare-gaslighting-ptsd-and-abusive/id1657865479?i=1000660772631

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/men-supporting-men-mentors-father-figures-groups/id1657865479?i=1000673974323

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Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Nulu Knives: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And I'm very excited for today's episode because Navy SEALs make up about 1 percent of the entire military population and only about 20 25 percent of them actually make it through the training.

A lot of similarity there to the Navy Nuclear Program, which also has a very small percentage of the people in the military actually doing it and a very small percentage of people who actually make it through the program and For those of you who don't know much about the Navy SEALs It's a very difficult program.

Most of y'all should be familiar with plenty of the training I mean basically drowning you on purpose rolling around in the sand  Everyone's probably familiar with what they call hell week  And people know that there's a lot of injuries that happen and we've seen a lot of good Navy SEALs kind of get The short end of the stick with medical stuff.

And I've actually met some amazing Navy SEALs who weren't given a second chance and they had to become a boatswain's mate, but we're going to talk with our member today about some of the truth of that, because there's a lot of Navy SEALs who say they were injured, but really they just failed the program and we're going to get a little inside scoop on how accurate that statement is, but I say all of that to emphasize one of today's points, which is our guest.

lost that opportunity, an opportunity that almost very, very few people are allowed to have. He was privileged to make it through and then ended up giving it up. He didn't quit. He didn't throw it away necessarily, but we're gonna get into that. And I say all of that for everyone out there to just take a step back and look at where you are, how many people can actually be where you are and do what you do and just give a second thought before you do anything reckless or uneducated or You know, get caught up in your emotions.

And we're going to talk about all that stuff today, both young adults and full grown men and women. That being said, we are here with Thomas J. LaGrave,  former Navy SEAL, an author, and he is out here helping mentor young adults. Mr. LaGrave, it's so great to have you on the show. Could you please tell us a little bit about yourself? 

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yes. My story arcs back to the late 1970s. I entered the military under the Carter administration and immediately thereafter became part of the Reagan administration. It was a military that had just Ended the Vietnam War and it had a, a really bad low morale.

Yeah. So that's what I stepped into. And I had no forward prior knowledge of what a Navy SEAL was. It, it just wasn't in my vocabulary. I was the f. No, not many, or actually just one relative served in the military. And I was pretty much like the first one. So at that point right now  I took a screening test and passed it and ended up I went to boot camp in San Diego.

I went to Balboa Park to become a hospital corpsman. And from there, I went across the bridge to Naval Amphibious Base Coronado. My BUDS class is 106, and we graduated, it was February the 29th, 1980.  So at this point, I, going to jump to the end of the career where I got discharged for drug use, and it was horrible.

It was a really dark time and dark places. And I was literally set on my way.  Four months later, family kind of picked me back up and said, enough's enough. And at that point I had had enough, ended up going to a recovery  On a 90 day program, and then for the next 32 years, I was clean and sober. At that time, I got I started working with young people at an adolescent recovery facility.

The ages were 13 to 17. Then I did a boys and girls club which is 6 to 18.  Afterwards, I had no credentials, and I saw I had a talent, so I went back to school. Got a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, a license, and a board certification, so I'm  what's called a licensed clinical social worker.  So from there, it comes to the 35th year. 

In addiction, it never goes away. It never ends. And I  forgot  my humility and taking care of that side of me and ended up going out for two weeks. And it was the worst two weeks of my  life because I had never experienced suicidal ideation. And I was almost there. I don't know why I ended up turning myself into a VA.

And the process began again becoming clean and sober, which now is five years. And it's the best five years because it's honest, and now I've circled myself with all the experienced and the knowledge bases and the people that check in on me to make sure I'm doing okay.  So, that in a nutshell is pretty much the arc of the past 40 years of my life. 

Yeah, well, you know, I'd like to thank you firstly for being open and sharing. About, you know, leaving the Navy SEALs, like I hinted at earlier, a lot of people don't make it through the program and, you know, there are some beliefs that some of them lie about why they got out, you know, because if they can blame a medical injury and not their own mental state, it's easier and also just  to say you got, you know, kicked out because of drugs.

I mean, that's something that I'm sure there were a lot of feelings of shame, regret, and, you know, disappointment, not just yourself, but your family, your friends, the people you served with, and I'm,  while I'm against drug use, the truth is the Navy has programs where if you are an alcoholic or struggling with alcoholism, they will send you to a facility in Florida, or I don't know if they have other facilities, but I know there's one in Florida where they will help you try to recover, but when it comes to drug use, there's a no tolerance policy.

The issue is the military breathes an environment of extreme stress, of a lot of negative emotions, and I know a lot of people who turn to drugs to cope with that if alcohol isn't working. Specifically, Weed is the hot topic of, you know, should the military allow it recreationally because states, in some states and areas, it's legal.

And a lot of military members want to argue, hey, we can drink alcohol when we're not on shift. And there's plenty of sailors who drink on  shift, you know. Don't do that. Don't advise that. But,  you know, if we can do it in our free time, you know, and we won't do that work, it should be fine. But, you know, the Navy has a no tolerance policy, but there were rumors, and I haven't gotten confirmation of this, but they were talking about making it up to the CEO's discretion of whatever command you're at, because the military is losing a lot.

Absolutely. So many people. I mean, everyone who was on restriction in the Navy, it was like, you know, got caught, got caught, got caught. And a lot of them were doing it because they were, their mental health was just failing them. And the Navy's programs for mental health were failing them. And so that's what they did.

I remember one guy, he might come on the show, a buddy of mine I served with. I mean, he waited a year.  A year for a single mental health appointment that was less than 30 minutes and it was the guy saying, you control your emotions, don't worry about it.  And then it was like, they booked him for six months later for a follow up appointment.

So he started smoking, it was the only way he could go to work. Now I don't approve, again, of drug use, but I can understand  why people are being pushed towards that. And so, whether the Navy and the other military branches are going to change their policy or not, It's definitely a hot topic and we can get into that.

But let's start Mr. Legrave with why did you end up turning into drugs? You were a Navy SEAL. You were working on missions that you probably can't tell us about. And I'm sure those missions were stressful and definitely high stakes. So is the military kind of the center point of why you started using drugs or was it the personal life or the mixture of both? 

It actually started in adolescence. I was 14 when I started and within a year, the reality is I didn't see it, but I was addicted. The behaviors were there. I was 15 years old. Let's go to, let's go to 18 years old and I'm back home living in the house. I had gotten to go to college and I screwed up with the grades cause I was partying.

And then I went home and I got caught by my mother with my younger brother who at the time was 14. We were getting high and my father said, hit the road. So  what I did was ended up, I wasn't going to go back to his house. I can do this. And at that time, the military couldn't get anybody to And I pretty much got everything I asked for.

And  In that, I brought with me the addiction and then it was early on they couldn't find drugs in alcohol or they couldn't find drugs in urinalysis cause they couldn't get the test right yet.  When it happened, which would have been  forestall issue, aircraft carrier.  Pilots, flight crew Ronald Reagan, zero tolerance, 1982 ish, 81, 82. 

And at that point, all the senior folks in the military bailed because they weren't going to lose their retirement for a zero tolerance getting popped because everybody was smoking weed. Right. Everybody was drinking. That's part of the culture. And so it was that Thinking that I could party and operate and it there was an arc.

It diminished over the years. I'd say by I got discharged in 1988 by 1986 87. I was in no shape physically. I was barely hanging on. And at 1988, when I got discharged, this was the point where all of it converged from an addiction starting at 14  to 29, 1988, out, out I went.  Okay, so I'm trying to do the math.

How many years did you do as a Navy SEAL before you left?  I was there for eight and a half years. Well, training for six months, eight and a half years.  And I was discharged at nine years and six months.  Wow. So, I mean, that had become a significant part of your identity by then. I mean, you were there for almost a decade.

So, what, how was losing that like? I mean, you went from Navy SEAL, which is not just, First of all, anyone in the military, you get this level of authority and leadership that you don't have in the civilian world. You get this pride and honor in the uniform and serving. You get all this respect. And then the Navy SEALs are like a level above that in terms of identity and all that pride and honor and respect and power you have over other people.

So, I mean, you really fell from there. So how was that like, dealing with that transition? It was exciting.  Your word was perfect. Identity. I couldn't separate me from the seal.  And then I was discharged with an re code of four will not take him back. They gave me a general under honorable because they didn't want to ruin my life.

Right here. After I went and got a military lawyer, I've got now honorable discharges. But at that time,  nobody  understood there was nowhere I could turn. Nobody I could share. I had to do this. Grin and bear it. And it was horrible. Right. That, that aspect is still pretty much in place. You can drink,  you can't do the drugs. 

And so at this point, it's we moved to recovery. Recovery allowed me. To live a life differently. I couldn't figure that out. I had like, Oh, I was coming up on a year and I'm a 12 stepper. I did AA, right.  I was going to use again. Cause I could not figure out my past. I couldn't see it. I couldn't feel it.

And that was key. The military shuts us all down. We have to, you know, if you're going to be pulling a trigger of any kind, you can't hesitate.  So that's part of that  shutting down. Then the alcohol use and the drug use, I'm running from all my issues.  So  at one year and some months I ended up going to work for an adolescent recovery facility so that I could see kids living at the age I was for the same issues that I had and I could watch them.

I did not go there to help kids.  It was selfish. I went there to help me.  Four years later, four years later, it was, I had gotten sober. I had seen them. They had given me courage. They had given me purpose. They had given me meaning. And then I followed it one more time with I ran a boys and girls club. I started with 59 kids, ended up with 440. 

And all this time, Clean and sober the past. I don't even recognize it. I don't tell folks what I did. I was a hospital corpsman. That's what you get.  And I, you know, I came from a time where the Vietnam era veterans that were Navy SEALs, they, they were what's called the quiet professional.  They did not call it attention to themselves.

They did not  bring any unwanted attention. Right. And.  It was made clear to us, all the youngsters, that the only people that need to know what you've done and how good you are is us.  The world does not need to know it. And that's where I took that mentality and said, you know what, I'm just Tom, recovering addict alcoholic.

I work with kids. My job's licensed clinical social worker. And at this point I am Bringing up a book that I wrote because of my concerns with adolescent America right now. So that's it in a nutshell.  Yeah, for sure. We know that drug use and alcoholism is drastically on the rise. Suicide in Young adults and children from ages 10 to 25 are extremely high.

In most places, the second leading cause of death in that age range. So, it's not good. Now, Tom, do you believe that by educating the youth on the consequences of their actions, by showing yourself as a personal example, you know, is that kind of your goal to warn them? Or is your goal to educate them to make smarter decisions?

How exactly are you working in mentoring the youth?  It started out where I came to understand with youth the key is playing.  And if you can play like a kid, they'll let you into their world.  If you play like an adult and play with a kid, they're gonna leave you. They don't wanna play. You're missing the point of how to play.

And that first ten years of my sobriety, I was a little kid making up for the  horrible things I had done to myself and I got to learn from all these kids who taught me how to play.  And it's that aspect that I not so much have something to tell you,  but with them embracing me, they told me their darker issues and I was able to give them suggestions. 

So it's not so much as I'm going to tell you what you need to do. That does not work. What works is being who you are and letting them see something in you that draws them to you. And then the process begins.  Yeah, I know. Yeah. They call me Yama. She's a great friend of mine. I've been on her show and vice versa.

And she said something once, which was  that kids want to be heard, but they're often seen not heard. And so you're talking about, you know, playing with the kids at their level, kind of saying Tell less listen more, you know, and I think that's the truth because a lot of youth want to be heard especially in a day and age of a lot of divorces of broken marriages and family homes and a lack of mentorship a Lot of you feel like they don't have someone listening to them which goes into the Formation of online identities where people are finding communities where they feel heard one way or another but sometimes they have to become someone else and  then  Yeah, so definitely listen more, tell less.

And so, you mentioned your book, and I'd love for you to show it to everyone and tell us a little bit about that. I love the title because I think,  you know, it's the truth of the world. It's called Special Welfare, Social Warfare. And I think that, you know, the social life, I mean, really is warfare. Now more than ever, with You know, common sections with cyberbullying, with social anxiety on the rise, with people not being able to communicate as well.

So tell us a little bit about what your book offers the readers.  You know what, this is the catch, but this is, this right here is, is what it's all about. Adolescent to adulthood, a guidebook. I have a 501c3  nonprofit called Honor Bound Academy.  I started putting it together 20 years ago when I saw a need.

And what it's based in is  the military is a rite of passage for all of us.  On top of it, I got a secondary education from BUDS as it was another type of rite of passage. It was where I was guided like you had said earlier, abused to the umpteenth degree, because you have to know that within you, there's a place that  you can go and you can hold your pain and hold your anxieties and hold your fears.

This, this place within us is what was tapped into. And the rite of passage,  the key component to it with this book is the mentorship. If there's an answer for kids, It's create a mentorship program. Amen. So I've created a rite of passage bringing in a very specific type of individual special forces  because of the my interaction with all the various branches, with all the special forces, I have made the connections where I can reach out and ask to bring on the various types of special forces. 

The book itself is put together in in a way that the rite of passage program has four key components. One is one of the wealthiest men in America as,  as the individual that is looked to from the perspective of having truly made  their mark in our world. The next one down was I can't do religion as a as a licensed clinical social worker.

It's it's not allowed. It's unethical. It's un it's not right. Tolerated. So I wanted to make sure because my belief, the 12 steps, a power greater than myself, I am absolutely a believer. And with it,  In creating this next part was looking at a spiritual domain by introducing Native American tribes, patrons that would live their way of life and integrate it into the rite of passage program.

And then along with it,  the identity of special forces, because that is what I am and I have access to. And the last part was.  We can talk at another time how I found my power greater. Leave it to to the fact that I found it in a book called The Silmarillion,  J. R. R. Tolkien's masterpiece,  and I was able to use that to gain  an understanding of a power greater. 

So what I'm looking at is, in that book, there were all these different locations that were the homes of various, you know, whether they're elves or dwarves or humans, and I used that to  create the citadel that you will go to as the program, The Rite of Passage, is mentored by The special forces as a patron, one of the wealthiest men in America combine all of that.

And my belief is that I can put  one in every state  with the understanding that each one's going to be different, but they're going to be alike. And it's in that bonding that  in that program is a key element because today's youth and their connectivity  Is not like ours was face to face, right? And so I want to give alongside not saying one's better than the other,  but allowing for a one year program is what Honor Bound Academy is.

So those are the four components, the key ages that I have chosen, 18, 19, and 20.  Right. With that said, that's how  Addiction, finding meaning and purpose, adolescence,  all of it came together for me and I'm sitting here right now with Special Welfare, Social Warfare, Adolescence to Adulthood, a guidebook.  Yeah, now those key ages you hit are very prominent in the military, it's the majority of them, although of course those are important years for anyone, wherever they are.

Often the beginning of college, a beginning of a job, or a gap year, where people are figuring themselves out. And you talked about rite of passage, and we actually mentioned that for the, kind of the first time, really, on my show, not too long ago. It's the episode Men Supporting Men, with Jason Lang.

And we talked about how There's a lack of father figures in the world for many of us. And we're, you know, going to social media and seeing so many different types of men, so many different skills. You've got men who are too feminine. You have men who are too masculine. You know, there's a lot of different ideas.

The word masculinity is being twisted. And we talked about how in a lot of the more tribal cultures, the more ancient cultures, you had a rite of passage to become a man. And that involved You know, having a father figure, a mentor, who was another man lead you. And you talked about how we connect, and I think it's so important that we have, you know, that we leverage social media, podcasting, TV, radio, to reach as many people as we can and create these mentorship programs.

But I think it's also important to have them in person, and I think it's amazing what you're doing. What I want to do is a little side pivot to a more niche topic, which is What advice would you have for, you know, military morale? It's higher after the Vietnam era, you know, right now, but it's still also kind of in a time period where there's a lot of mixed feelings about the military and what's going on in the world.

But that being said, there are plenty of young men and even some young women who want to become Navy SEALs. So what advice would you have for them? A bit of a reality check, but also some encouragement. That's fine.  If the saying is why reinvent the wheel,  that answer for me the  manner in which you observe the military, how it is what it does to all of us my favorite individual was Joseph Campbell,  and he wrote about the power of myth  and The transition from adolescent to adulthood is ancient. 

And the key piece within  that reading I saw where he said, you know, if you're, it is your generation's turn at the war, how can you justify if you are a peace, peaceful, learning person that does not want to kill? 

Part that Joseph Campbell shared so that we could come to terms with it is  you need to  participate in what your generation has for it, for better and for worse. And you embrace it to say that I did my best to be who I was, who I am, and I am. live your life in that military for however long you are set or have chosen to live it and understand that you just seek to be a good human being. 

And if it calls for you to take a life,  war is ancient.  There's a long history, a long,  a long past. And right, we are not being asked to do anything that countless generations have Is that the absolute answer? Is that the complete answer? No  but  for the majority of people that find themselves in the military  You know what it does to us You're living a life that can't be explained you are on Constantly and then when it's time to relax we tend to relax with substance. 

So  in that,  how to change that part of the military, I'm not sure all that I can say is how to change yourself, seeing yourself as living the life that was put before me and doing it with honor. How's that?  Yeah, that's, that's great. You know, I think there's a lot of bystanderism and complaining in the world nowadays and  I like what you said we can't always change our situations, but we can change how we perceive those situations.

And, I understand what you're saying. And I'm sure there's going to be people who are upset saying, Well, we wish that we didn't have to be you know, children of war. That, you know, we have to deal with this stuff. And you're right, the military life can't be explained. It's unnatural. It is very different, you know.

And I think there are ways to make it a lot better, and I think we're kind of seeing some of that. But I had an episode, and I'll add it to the description below, with David Nathanson. He was in the military for like 34 more years, so that's most of his life. So we talked, and he said something that I really liked, which was,  you know, the military is a huge organization with a lot of red tape, a lot of different papers,  If we change constantly we'll never be ready.

And the point of the military is to be always ready. I mean, that's the Navy saying always ready. At the same time the bigger the organization, the longer it takes to see those changes ripple all throughout. And, you know, before we started recording here, Tom, you talked about the MFLEC. You mentioned that to me.

I don't think they had it in 1970s, right? But it is something that they have now. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that. It seemed like you had a positive opinion about it and, you know, I'll express my opinion about it and what I think about it, but I'd love to hear yours first.  That was my the circle came round. 

So  I started to the program was military Family Life Consultants. It started in 2004. I became an MAC in 2009, and then for the next seven years I traveled all around the world, wherever military bases were  other than. We weren't allowed into war zones. Right, right.  So I worked with Army, Navy, Marine and Air Force and two years into the program, the last vestige  of who was willing to participate in the MFLAC program.

Was SOCOM, Special Operations Command. They didn't want it because of the stigma and all of that. Well, it got such good results in big navy and army air force marines that they said, okay, So  the director of the program knew my background, so I was tasked right at the beginning and sent in and got to work with all the branches and all the special forces and  the military,  what we are is short term problem solving support of individuals, their families and commands.

I am not doing per se therapy because the military has got their therapists, but what I'm doing is Yeah, I know  But what i'm trying to do is find out where the issue is see if I can't address it And if not to where I can send it, right? there were those times where I had to send it back into the command because  You were going to hurt yourself or somebody else and you know, in the military, you can take yourself out.

Just don't take out  your left and right.  Right? Well, what I'll say is the M flag is nice because there's a more, there's a safer level of comfort. with it because it's a civilian, right, which is one of my goals in life is to create a more significant civilian based program, third party for military members for mentorship and for career advising financial advising.

Because like you said, the military has their therapist, they have your financial counselor, they have your career counselor, right? And what that means typically is there's someone in uniform who already has a rate in a job who has five other positions on top of it that then gets assigned based off  who knows what to be a financial counselor or a career counselor.

And they just really don't have the time to dedicate to you and all your issues. Whereas that at least on my ship, I know Because of all the suicides and the issues, they had stationed an MFLAC on our ship during the shipyards and you could go in and talk to him. I think there was two or three of them, actually.

I know there was a man and I think there was a woman as well. And, like you said, it's less therapy, more just conversation. Having someone there for you, being able to express these frustrations that you might be worried about talking to your chief or your sergeant or whoever it is about. Because,  like we've talked about before on this show, when it comes to issues in the military.

You know, there's a lot of see something, say something, which isn't a bad thing. You know, I mean, safety is, is important,  but you've got to be careful with who you tell what, because everyone there, I mean, yeah, everyone's a brotherhood, a sisterhood, right? But you also have your military obligation to do as well.

And I'm not saying don't trust the people around you, but be cautious with what you say. And, more specifically, in the military than in the civilian world, because the consequences are far more significant.  And what I mean by that is, if you haven't heard before on my show,  you know, if you have a depressive episode or a suicidal episode at work in the civilian world, there will be consequences, right?

And maybe you'll lose your job, worst case scenario, typically not. But in the military, I mean, losing your job in the military, there will be consequences. You lose so much more, the financial security your location, your identity, as we mentioned earlier. So it's really important or even worse than losing.

Everything is being changed to a different job in the military. And that, that can be way worse. As crazy as it seems with the civilian world, you get some kind of control over your destiny. If you're rerated, if you lose your security clearance, top secret, whatever it may be, yeah. If you lose that and then you end up.

Being a barnacle scrubber, for lack of better terms,  that could be worse than, than civilian life, for sure. So, I mean, Tom, what kind of strategies did you implement as an MFLAC person to really communicate with military members? Because I know we said it's a lot more comfortable to talk to you, especially if you're a veteran you understand.

But there's still a lot of boundaries up, right? We talked about military, especially military men being more stoic, more cold, less expressive of their emotions and a lot less trusting. So what, how did you really get these people to communicate with you and vice versa?  The key piece to it that I did not say prior was that I'm strictly confidential. 

That, that was when I first stepped on a command, I had to go to the commanding officer and tell him that. That I'm strictly confidential and does he have or she have an issue with that  and that was the first conversation. So that key piece that I am going to keep your secrets except  you're going to hurt yourself.

You're going to hurt someone else, child abuse, domestic violence or sexual abuse. I'm a reporter, you know, I, I, that I am going to report  anything else stays with me. And I found what worked the best is the military is forever getting new systems. And when you get a new systems, it comes with a book and a bunch of individuals coming to train you. 

I assessed whatever your issues were. I went and found the type of information that could serve you and I presented it to you in the form of homework.  Now, that wasn't big, but once they got seeing that there are things that they can do, there are mindfulness  things, there, there are different types of therapies.

The one that I use is cognitive behavioral. Well, you can explain that to The vast majority of people in the military and they're going to get that and understand that right now I get I give them the necessary, you know ABC of what is it? How does it work? What do you do? how do you say and  you keep them in the boundaries and you let them find their own way because I have never found somebody's answer in here.

I'm looking at you trying to find out in you where that answer is. And I am proceeding after that. Once we have it, then the material that I think best serves you is put before you.  You know, ladies and gentlemen, if you are a military member or, you know, someone who is a military member who is struggling with those topics that an MFLAG can't cover.

I'm not exactly sure, but I would check with your chaplain. I think they have confidentiality over everything, right? Yes. Yeah. So I would, I would definitely check in with them. If you have those more  serious, heavier, darker topics on your heart and you need to talk to someone about them, you know, they're  kind of religiously affiliated military religions different, but That would be another great source to talk to.

And you could always find a priest who is civilian side as well if you don't trust or don't like the military chaplains for whatever reason. But I've talked to plenty of them. Most of them are great people and they're willing to help you out. And same with the MFLACs. I, I've never sat down with one necessarily, but I've met them on my ship.

And they're people who want to help, right? I mean, it's not about, you know, So you know, like, you know, it's it's a lot of people getting paid. Most of them, like, like you mentioned are already veterans. Right? So they don't really necessarily need the money. They want to give back to the community that they served in and help out the people who went through what they're going through.

And so, Tom, this has been a great conversation. What we want to know is what is the future looking like for you? You know, you're battling every day with recovery to, to maintain that and all while helping others do the same as well as mentoring. So Where do you see all this mentorship and these programs going whether that's more books or more programs?

What is your future plan looking like?  The way I'm looking at it right now is I Spent the last 10 years attempting to get funding the program I had, I went back to academia with it because I needed it to be it's based off of a special forces right of passage and then it's made to the civilian world and there's nothing out there that has all those pieces that I can say, if you do this, it works.

So I had to go and look at the, you know, the gold standards in various areas and have it researched Where I have a little of that and a little of that and a little of that and then academia They found all that information so that I could footnote it. So with that said the process is that I wanted one individual for the first two years because I needed to see where all the mistakes were. 

It's all written in the book. The 501c3 is is A to Z in the book, but I needed to know where and how the problems were going to be. So  The bottom line, I was looking for 6, 191, 000 to open my first Honorbound Academy where I would serve 50 youth in the first year, roll those 50 over into the second year and bring on 50 new ones where the older ones are teaching the newer ones and the mentors are learning how to bond them. 

So if I would have gotten 6,  191, 000, I probably wouldn't have a book right now.  But because I didn't, I wrote it so that I left it in perpetuity, so that in the future, if somebody comes across it, sees that this is something that can work and has the wherewithal for finances,  you can have it. It's right in there.

It's my gift back to the generation who taught me what I needed to be in order to be what you needed me to be for you.  How's that for a wraparound?  No, I think that's a great answer. And I, I appreciate, I mean, part of what you're doing too now is getting on podcasts to not only promote your book as a resource for people, but you share your story.

And like I said earlier, I really appreciate you sharing it, because I don't think people understand the the shame, I'm, you know, the world has changed a lot, where there's a lot more empathy, sympathy, vulnerability but there's still a lot of people who would hear you were a Navy SEAL who got kicked out for drugs, and I mean, they would just  have a very nasty opinion about it, so I, I really appreciate the courage it takes to go out there and share that story, And hopefully inspire others to share their stories.

I love in a previous episode with Ms. Whiskey Lynn, she said, Recover loudly so others don't die quietly. And I think that's great. And for, actually since we're at it, For people who have left the Navy SEALs, Whether their contract just came up, Whether it was for an injury, Whether it was for behavior, whatever it may be, And they're struggling with that piece of identity with wanting to be a Navy SEAL again or always being a Navy SEAL, not wanting to start a new life.

And whether that's coming out in the form of depression and suicide or just confusion or poor decisions, what advice would you give them?  I wouldn't because they'd smack me.  You know what? It's I am what I am. My story is I got discharged from SEAL Team One for drug use.  Oh, what was it? June  28th, 1988.

It's still there. It's who I am. I am both those people. I have integrated them. This is there for you too, so that There's a way there's an answer. There's support. There are people out there. And I just had one of my class reunions. I went back now  i'm teammates with all seals But I have a group that I went through training with buds, right?

That is my class and that's a whole different animal in there and all of them have embraced me They they're i'm i'm i'm seen as i've always been seen to them. And that's all I need. The, the teams, I don't know how you're looking at me. I don't, I hope it's well, I'm here. If you need me and my help, I am willing, but my classmate,  they're the ones that will treat you just like you were  the day you rang that bell, not out, but on, you rang it to go on to the teams.

that moment there, your, your, your classmates will always see you that way. So that's what I would offer. Go back to your classmates.  So embracing your new identity, you know, understanding that you're now a former Navy SEAL, you've got a new life ahead of you. And then leaning on those who are tied to that old identity and that support you through your transition, leaning on them for support.

I think that's, that's beautiful. I think that's great advice. So ladies and gentlemen, if you want to check out the book, we'll have the link in the description below for that, as well as Mr. LaGrave's LinkedIn, where you could reach out to him for speaking engagements, podcast, guesting, or mentorship programs, whatever it may be, or if you just want to connect with him, but Mr.

LaGrave, Tom, it's been a great time with you. I think we've had a great, meaningful conversation and I hope it helped a lot of people and I appreciate you coming on the show today. And I appreciate you, Mr. Whiskey. Thank you so much for everything.